"It is clear that LG will be able to offer good indoor reception with the fifth generation 8VSB receiver maybe for $300. COFDM indoor reception is under $75." And, barely worth it, since it's used to present legacy formats. I still maintain that the silicon cost is of interest to manufacturers, that the real item to consumers is the quality of reception, audio and images. VSB kills COFDM on the latter two points. And, HDTV content appears to be the same or better quality than current DVDs, and will be the same or better than HD-DVDs. Only blind people will say the same about the content transmitted via COFDM -- save Australia. "Something is happening here, and you don't know what it is, do you, Mr. Jones?" John Willkie -----Original Message----- From: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of dmenolan Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 3:33 AM To: Open DTV list; Nat Ostroff; Frank Eory Subject: [opendtv] Six years on I read with interest the current spirited debate between Barry, John, Fra= nk and Nat on the 8VSB/COFDM issue. Six years on from the initial launch of digital tv in the UK and the US a lot has happened. But Frank's telling comments about the comparative economics of COFDM and 8VSB have, as I hav= e always said, been proved correct in spades. = The system which worked first, had most flexibility, was widely adopted, would enjoy huge R+D spend, and would clean up. COFDM is now a commodity technology. Outside the US, Canada, S Korea and Mexico DVB-T has cleaned up. = And the problems with impulse noise have been fixed: the Philips impulse noise killer chip is in the Philips and new Hauppauge STB which retail fo= r =A380. It is clear that LG will be able to offer good indoor reception with the fifth generation 8VSB receiver maybe for $300. COFDM indoor reception is under $75. = But the main issue is the US is a cable/satellite society: therefore a commercially differentiated DTV proposition should with the US power leve= ls have leveraged portable and mobile reception. Compare Germany and The Netherlands. = A commercial trick has been missed and others such as Qualcom and Crown Castle and their cellular backers will inherit the earth probably with a DVB-H solution in the US. And as Nat said the OTA broadcasters will take = a thorough hammering. Probably not what NAB and MSTV had in mind, but then foresight has not been their forte. Equally it is very clear to me that there are now successful business models for terrestrial digital systems: the experience in the UK with Freeview and DAB proves it. * Make the system work technically *Make the content free *Introduce new services not available in analogue, not just a pretty pictures simulcast. *Make the adapters very low cost. *Market the system all the time on air Freeview has quadrupled the number of UK DTV viewers in TWO years to the point where it will catch DBS in a couple of years and now the vendors ha= ve confidence to embed the COFDM tuner in a very wide range of LCDs and plasmas. CRT based IDTVs are toast. This is now virtous circle economics and I notice that a lot of the adapters on sale are designed for international markets. Further scale economies. I understand that Dixons has now set the purchasing price of the adapters from the vendors at =A32= 0, talk about aggressive! Worldwide the number of DVB-T receivers in use is probably between ten an= d fifteen times the installed ATSC base. And this gap will widen. And in th= e ten months that ISDB-T has been on air in Japan twice as many ISDB-T COFD= M receivers have been sold as have ATSC receivers since 1998: another telli= ng testimony to the power of COFDM. And there are other developments too: *Commercialisation of diversity COFDM reception which gives 6-9dB gain an= d has been demonstrated to provide excellent mobile reception in SUVs aroun= d the world. Soon in STBs, portable TVs, SUVs and laptops. This has also no= w been demonstrated in ISDB-T as well with identical performance gains. * The launch of a 7day Freeview EPG service, complete with regional insertions, will stimulate a free PVR market. Many PVRs are now on sale f= or around =A3200. By itself this development will probably undermine the cur= rent economics of commercial television as subscription based PVRs will remain= niche products when there is a free alternative. * An optimised standard for handheld mobile, DVB-H, which is really an optimised spinoff of DVB-T *AND* ISDB-T. This has savvy broadcasters and cellular operators salivating and explains the rash of worldwide field trails including the USA. And I can see viable business models for mobile= television: I have no doubt that Qualcom, Crown and others will show some= gold old fashioned American ingenuity in that arena from which others wil= l learn. As to local and regional DTT broadcasting: in the UK they have had that since 1998 and the current EPG service is fully regionalised as the commercial broadcasters have local ads, local news, local sports, etc. Of= course there are differences betwen PSIP and DVB-SI , but they could have= been overcome. Did the US make the right choice in staying the course with 8VSB? The entirely predictable choice was made as we now see with some quite predictable and some unforeseen consequences. The next six years will be even more 'interesting': Will NTSC really be switched off? Will ATSC gain any real market share? Will OTA broadcasting survive? Will the looming mobile COFDM competitors inherit the earth? Kind Regards, Dermot Nolan ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at FreeLists.org - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at FreeLists.org - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.