[opendtv] Re: Google: Upload High Dynamic Range (HDR) videos (also streaming with Chromecast)
- From: Craig Birkmaier <brewmastercraig@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2016 22:46:37 -0500
On Nov 16, 2016, at 9:01 PM, Manfredi, Albert E
<albert.e.manfredi@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Perhaps. But we have stations that transmit one HD plus four and even five SD
subchannels. I submit to you that this is roughly equivalent. And it works.
If you say so. I see routine problems with CBS HD here in Gainesville, and they
have only one SD network in their multiplex. With "proper" pre filtering you
can cram a bunch of SD channels into a multiplex - think 1.5 Mbps per channel,
which is what cable and DBS did in the early days.
I said that Europe missed out on HD (over DTT), and you come back with
meaningless words? How many Euro TV markets support 12, 14, or more HD
channels OTA, Craig? They can't, because of the simulcast requirement.
There is plenty of HD in Europe Bert. DVDs are still a major source, and
Blu-Ray delivers real HD and beyond. And guess what Bert - they can stream HD
in Europe too!
But you ignore the fact that digital 576i makes very good pictures; much better
than NTSC and digital 480i.
By the way, how many U.S. markets offer 12 to 14 or more HD channels?
In other words they threw away the HD information...
In other words, they used as much as they needed. A 480p plasma set made more
use of the HD information than did those cheap 480i CRT sets. In a broadcast
medium, this is the way to go. Without making any changes to the broadcast
infrastructure, SD and ED sets faded into oblivion, and were replaced with HD
sets, and all kept using the same HD streams.
All of these early sets were compromised to say the least. The deinterlacing
and scaling technology was crude, and there was almost NO HD content available
until the early 2000's.
SD and ED sets faded when LCD panel technology matured.
Yes, because - unlike broadcasters - new Internet competitors
are willing to offer these streams, and device makers like
Google and Roku are building boxes to support these streams.
Funny how Craig just can't get these concepts. No, Craig. It is much more
difficult to introduce a new service that demands a lot of bandwidth, when
your medium has to continue feeding 24/7 broadcast streams to a huge base of
incompatible installed sets.
You mean when your industry is saddled with an early HD standard that is
hopelessly outdated.
There is no excuse for broadcasters to remain frozen in last century digital
technology.
With unicast, this is not the case. As long as your edge servers can feed the
individual sets, system capacity is not much impacted. *Server capacity*
might be, except that the 4K streams can use H.265 compression, and also the
4K stream can be downconverted to HD in real time, to feed legacy sets.
Unicast, fed by servers on the network edge, makes all the difference.
So a viewer can spend about $100 to pull 4K streams from the Internet, which
can feed legacy HD sets and new 4K sets. Do you see the absurdity of your
argument?
Broadcasters could easily offer new services alongside legacy streams in their
multiplexes. But there is one minor issue: commercials.
Folks who are watching 4K content are paying for it, and paying NOT to see ads.
When's the last time you saw a recent blockbuster movie on the broadcast
networks? Broadcasting does not need 4K; other than sports, even HD is largely
unnecessary.
On the other hand, ATSC 3.0 could be used as the way to solve this problem.
Just like ATSC 1.0 did with HD, ATSC 3.0 will be compatible with 4K and
H.265. So no matter what set you have, there won't be a need for simulcast.
Any ATSC 3.0 TV set, or HDMI stick, or STB, will be compatible with 4K and
H.265, and downconvert as required for legacy displays.
And your point is? You just told us they don't have the bandwidth.
So now you are saying they can just drop HD and move to incompatible 4K. Yeah,
that's just what the market needs.
It's more than h.265 Bert. You'll need new tuners too.
And forget H.264, will you? We have to move beyond, with 4K. How is it that
you were so anxious to have H.264 adopted, when H.262 was the norm, and now
you're stuck?
H.265 is not here yet in any meaningful way. Ditto's for ATSC 3.0. If
broadcasters want to play leapfrog and move to h.265 fine. Let me know the
switchover date so I can plug it into my calendar app.
Everything can evolve if the system is designed properly
There's no problem with ATSC, as I've painfully explained to you on multiple
occasions. The problem is that TV sets are not upgradeable. Broadcasters
don't manufacture the TV sets, Craig. You didn't know? ATSC 1.0 can transmit
H.265 compressed 4K video no problem. Just define a new container. What is so
hard to understand about this, Craig?
Nothing. Just as it is easy to understand how Netflix et al are able to deliver
h.264 streams to tens of millions of legacy TVs, not to mention a billion
mobile devices.
TV sets are very upgradable.
A 43" 4K set is an oxymoron.
Again, you feel compelled to grind this axe. The simple fact is, just as HD
sets became totally ubiquitous, even in small 22" sizes, heck even in
smartphones, 4K is showing every sign of doing the same thing. The new
normal. In spite of your protests.
There are good reasons for more resolution on computing device screens. They
use it for a lot more than 360P and 480P video streams. But 4K is a stretch,
especially for phones. The iPhone 7 plus is 1920 x 1080.
No, you don't. You mentioned smartphones and tablets. Smartphones use a
camera that has to take three different exposures, to get a more pleasing
image, and call that "HDR." And you fell for it. So no, Craig, you evidently
still haven't a clue. And when I explain HDR, you think I'm changing the
subject. Huh?
Stop the bullshit Bert. We're asking about displays, not cameras.
I've listed a number of products that offer displays with HDR and WCG. I even
gave you a link with a review of some of these displays.
This has NOTHING to do with high resolution audio Bert. It is just the
use of better transducers to deliver commonplace digital audio.
Poppycock. So Craig, you spend the time to explain what you think high
resolution audio is, in full detail. That way I don't have to try to decipher
what it is you're missing. Because clearly, you missing something. Invest the
time to explain in detail.
You cannot decipher something you don't understand. High resolution is well
defined and a range of products support it. I provided a link.
Regards
Craig
No more responses to this thread. You've abused us enough.
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- » [opendtv] Re: Google: Upload High Dynamic Range (HDR) videos (also streaming with Chromecast)- Craig Birkmaier
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- » [opendtv] Re: Google: Upload High Dynamic Range (HDR) videos (also streaming with Chromecast)- Manfredi, Albert E
- » [opendtv] Re: Google: Upload High Dynamic Range (HDR) videos (also streaming with Chromecast)- Craig Birkmaier
- » [opendtv] Re: Google: Upload High Dynamic Range (HDR) videos (also streaming with Chromecast)- Manfredi, Albert E
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