[nvda-addons] Re: Symbol Insertion dialog addon
- From: Him Prasad Gautam <drishtibachak@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: nvda-addons@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 07:07:25 +0545
hi,
ten million symbols, perhaps never.
I was just referring math and commonly used one. ,
On 10/22/14, derek riemer <driemer.riemer@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> I think there are like 10 million total unicode symbols.
>
> Subscribe to my new mailing list for blind people to discuss technology.
> //www.freelists.org/list/at-discuss4vi
>
> On 10/21/2014 10:45, Him Prasad Gautam wrote:
>> hi,
>> As this issue was raised by Mr. Shah with me earlier,
>> I went through all symbols on the unicode consortium.
>> There are more than 2000 symbols.
>> A great confusion prevailed to me, which one to take and which one to
>> avoid.
>> Many of them are never heard too.
>> I doubt that all symbols may be read out by the default TTS too.
>> I had began the development of similar type of addons but remains at
>> backup because of time constrains. I have an alternate option of
>> typing them if one can list the common symbols in about one to two
>> hundred numbers.
>>
>>
>> On 10/21/14, Bhavya shah <bhavya.shah125@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> I will try the ordinal Alt method you shared.
>>> 'just because one person needs a
>>> specific feature doesn't mean others are in need of it '
>>> I have recently began working with Maths & Science ACCESS instructors,
>>> and my fellow students, and on seeing the need for such a feature by
>>> me and fellow students, have thereby requested for such an addon. It
>>> isn't feature duplication, since I have given a use case.
>>> 'just because another screen reader has a feature doesn't
>>> mean NVDA should follow and implement it. '
>>> I do understand what you are pointin out :) I do apologize for those
>>> (past mistakes), but I wouldn'put this request into that category,
>>> since I have felt its need many a times and have given a use case.
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> On 10/21/14, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>> Hi Derek and all,
>>>> Very good points.
>>>> Another thing to note is that not all synthesizers have implemented a
>>>> way
>>>> to
>>>> pronounce majority of these Unicode characters, so it may create more
>>>> work
>>>> than needed - not only use the proposed add-on, but also modify the
>>>> voice-specific speech dictionary to allow the synthesizer to pronounce
>>>> the
>>>> symbol correctly.
>>>> Lastly, I would like to take this time to bring up something that was
>>>> in
>>>> my
>>>> mind for a while: just because another screen reader has a feature
>>>> doesn't
>>>> mean NVDA should follow and implement it. Some of these features found
>>>> in
>>>> other screen readers were implemented when it was difficult for users
>>>> to
>>>> work with a particular app, or needed to use a feature in specific
>>>> circumstances. Although it is good to see that NVDA is starting to
>>>> support
>>>> professional applications, we should not be caught up within a storm of
>>>> feature duplication, as some of the recent suggestions and add-on ideas
>>>> are
>>>> somewhat questionable (in my opinion). Also, just because one person
>>>> needs
>>>> a
>>>> specific feature doesn't mean others are in need of it - perhaps later
>>>> when
>>>> the need arises (some of our current add-ons were started as personal
>>>> projects, then the authors decided to share them with the community in
>>>> hopes
>>>> that others will find it useful).
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Joseph
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nvda-addons-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> [mailto:nvda-addons-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of derek riemer
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2014 6:20 AM
>>>> To: nvda-addons@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: [nvda-addons] Re: Symbol Insertion dialog addon
>>>>
>>>> Not a bad idea I don't think. I will throw some points out.
>>>> From a developer's perspective, this presents a number of interesting
>>>> challenges.
>>>> (what is a "common symbol")
>>>> (I feel, this shouldn't be merged into nvda core when done, if we do
>>>> it,
>>>> because if it is, then that defetes the purpose of nvda only providing
>>>> screen reader capabilities).
>>>> Similar features exist with the emodicons addon. Of course that uses
>>>> emogie,
>>>> but could this be part of an emogie addon? I mean, we were thinking of
>>>> writing an extended speech dictionaries addon, why not just add some
>>>> common
>>>> symbols and such? It would be as easy to do that as it wouldd be to
>>>> write
>>>> a
>>>> whole new implementation.
>>>>
>>>> As well, If you do scientific or mathematical work on a computer with a
>>>> screen reader like you were mentioning, I will throw a word of wisdom
>>>> that
>>>> I
>>>> have had to figure out as I started using computers for mathematics
>>>> relatively recently.
>>>> You really oar putting yourself into a hole by using microsoft word or
>>>> other
>>>> wysiwyg editors for mathmatics. You probably should learn how to use
>>>> nemeth
>>>> and use nemetex ( http://www.accessisoft.com/nemetex.htm ) or learn how
>>>> to
>>>> type math in la tex. It has a much much harder learning curve, but it
>>>> will
>>>> save you hour's of work in word being frustrated.
>>>> This is because word was not designed to do mathematical writing. At
>>>> most,
>>>> word was written for publishing an equation or a few equations. If you
>>>> need
>>>> to use word, you might take a look at the mathtype plugin for word, as
>>>> that
>>>> will allow easier creation of the symbols you need. A symbols list
>>>> won't
>>>> fix
>>>> the issue of going to the word symbols list, it will just outsource the
>>>> symbols list to nvda itself. Please provide any feedback to me if you
>>>> feel
>>>> I
>>>> am wrong though.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Derek
>>>>
>>>> Subscribe to my new mailing list for blind people to discuss
>>>> technology.
>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/at-discuss4vi
>>>>
>>>> On 10/21/2014 06:57, Bhavya shah wrote:
>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>> You all might say that such an add-on wouldn't benefit the blind,
>>>>> because the sighted people currently do it the same way as screen
>>>>> reader (NVDA specifically, not JAWS) users do, but a similar feature
>>>>> is present in JAWS, which in my experience, is found useful by all
>>>>> people who type Maths (including me).
>>>>> So, the action I m talking about here is symbol insertion.
>>>>> By symbols, I am referring to mathematical symbols, scientific symbols
>>>>> and practically any other symbol.
>>>>> Normally, a person to type complex symbols has to either press a key
>>>>> if one on his or her keyboard is assigned to the desired symbol (which
>>>>> is highly unlikely in the case of complex symbols and mainstream
>>>>> keyboards), or if the current application provides, then access the
>>>>> application specific Symbols list dialog and after locating the
>>>>> desired symbol, press Enter on it. By the way, I have also heard of a
>>>>> method of typing symbols by the numeric keypad, but haven't found any
>>>>> laptop keyboard alternative.
>>>>> So, I propose the creation of an add-on in which:
>>>>> When the user presses a particular keystroke the Symbol Insertion
>>>>> dialog comes up.
>>>>> The Symbol Insertion dialog contains a predefined list of some
>>>>> symbols, which can be quickly accessed by first letter navigation and
>>>>> when pressed Enter on, the symbol gets typed into the current editable
>>>>> field, if any has focus.
>>>>> The dialog contains the following buttons:
>>>>> Type button : types the currently selected symbol Copy to clipboard
>>>>> button: This option copies the currently selected symbol to the
>>>>> clipboard, so that the user can type that quickly by a Ctrl V.
>>>>> Add... button: This button opens the Add Custom Symbols dialog box,
>>>>> where the user is allowed to add custom symbols. The Add Custom
>>>>> Symbols dialog contains the options; Symbol: edit field (where user
>>>>> can enter the custom symbol) and the Replacement: edit field: (where
>>>>> the user can enter the custom name of the symbol, name is displayed in
>>>>> the Symbol Insertion dialog, where the name decides the first letter
>>>>> navigation). and the Add button and Cancel button (which do the action
>>>>> their names suggest).
>>>>> Delete button: This button deletes the currently selected symbol from
>>>>> the Symbol Insertion dialog, to remove symbols that the user does not
>>>>> use at all, and thereby reduce clutter and allow faster first letter
>>>>> navigation.
>>>>> Cancel button: This button exits the dialog without performing any
>>>>> action.
>>>>> When the user hits the Enter key on the currently selected symbol or
>>>>> on the Type button, the dialog should be automatically exitted.
>>>>> If Jamie and Mick Sir allow, and if such an addon is created, then it
>>>>> can be merged into NVDA itself.
>>>>> I hope someone may be able to develop such an addon.
>>>>> I would appreciate any assistance.
>>>>> Best Regards
>>>>> Bhavya Shah
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> NVDA add-ons Central: A list for discussing NVDA add-ons
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>>>>>
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>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
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>>>
>>> --
>>> Best Regards
>>> Bhavya Shah
>>> E-mail Address :- bhavya.shah125@xxxxxxxxx
>>> Skype -> bhavya.09
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> NVDA add-ons Central: A list for discussing NVDA add-ons
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>>>
>>
>
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--
Him Prasad Gautam
Kathmandu, Nepal
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