[lit-ideas] Re: Where politics hits the grass
- From: "Julie Krueger" <juliereneb@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 23:51:56 -0600
I'm a little surprised. What on earth motivates you to continue to feel
badly for the monsters that destroy and deplete this entirely screwed up
planet of ours? There are times, Irene, whether I wonder why you wouldn't
rather see the entire thing go up in a mushroom cloud.
Of course, it's hard to measure reality against either Edenic idealism or
catastrophic nihilism.
If people are so little worth saving, so awful, so irredeemable, why does
the experience and trajectory people trouble you so much?
Either you care or you don't .... if we're monsters, you can stop being
upset about it. If we aren't, then we aren't.
You seem to see things in very chiaroscuro tones. If humanity does not
follow the behaviours you believe best for the planet, for vegetable growth,
for animal life, for human children, there's no point to it.
If humanity has areas that behave in ways you perceive as good, it's a waste
of effort or thought, because humanity, the planet are too far gone.
I almost think you don't want there to be anything good or redemptive or
positive.... it would perhaps be an affront in some way to your basic
philosophy, your basic view of the world. I have known a few people for
whom a sense of impending doom and despair keep their lives worth living.
But I don't think you're one of them.
I don't know how to understand it. I keep trying -- and I will keep trying
... because the best thing I know to do about being human is to try to learn
to think in ways I am not accustomed to.
On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 11:35 PM, Andy <mimi.erva@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> I read about it too, but it really saddens me to think of the animals and
> the way they're tortured so humans can eat, like there's nothing else they
> can eat. Lately it's become a struggle even to go to Wal-Mart or Target
> because of the way people treat their children. Sometimes I just can't deal
> with it. It's like why do they have children. It's all the same thing, the
> same heartlessness, the same brainlessness.
>
>
> --- On *Fri, 11/7/08, Julie Krueger <juliereneb@xxxxxxxxx>* wrote:
>
> From: Julie Krueger <juliereneb@xxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Where politics hits the grass
> To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Friday, November 7, 2008, 5:23 AM
>
>
> I wasn't suggesting you join an environmental group (or any group) at all.
> I think it is encouraging that there are some very real, very practical ways
> that our society is addressing both the environmental and economic issues
> these days. It encourages me. I like to be aware of things which look
> hopeful and encouraging and pragmatic. Reading some of the ideas helps me
> think outside the box a little. I like that too.
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 11:18 PM, Andy <mimi.erva@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> You're right. But the way I look at it, I'm just one yeast out of
>> almost seven billion, and I'm absolutely ineffective in swaying others. I
>> did my best on this list to convince people to vote for Gore in 2000 and I
>> know that all those good republicans out there voted for Bush anyway. Then
>> they did it again in 2004. Best case scenario they voted for Ralph Nader
>> which is a vote for Bush. Plus look at all our discussions on pharma. What
>> a waste of time that was in convincing anybody.
>>
>> I live my for the most part environmentally conservative little life,
>> which is to say, I don't eat meat and haven't for decades (tons and tons of
>> pollution and water saved) and a list of other things that I do personally
>> to save energy and water and electricity. Beyond that, there's nothing I
>> can do. People don't care. They love their meat and will not part with
>> it. They think it's a bother putting on a sweater. They use water like
>> it's always going to be there. They burn those stupid votive type lights in
>> their windows all night year round.
>>
>> If I join an environmental group, what's that going to do? Those few who
>> care are already implementing changes; the vast majority will glaze over.
>> My neighbors have no idea about climate change. Can you imagine? No idea.
>> If I tell them, I'm being their mother and they wouldn't believe it
>> anyway. And companies like ExxonMobil spend millions advertising against
>> climate change, so those who even heard of global warming think it's some
>> myth.
>>
>> The society and the economy have to be rethought from the ground up. We
>> have to reverse consumerism, get people to want to build the economy around
>> environmentalism, and that is not going to happen. My efforts to convince
>> anyone would be quixotic at best. Beyond even all that, it's too late. The
>> problem if it isn't irreversible just yet will be in the near future.
>>
>> That's not to say that I don't admire others who are activists, it's just
>> that I would feel *more* impotent, not less if I were to become active, the
>> way Cindy Sheehan finally in despair said Americans deserve the government
>> they have. Maybe the bottom line the way I see it is that the human race is
>> out to destroy itself, and there's no way I can stop them.
>>
>>
>>
>> --- On *Fri, 11/7/08, Julie Krueger <juliereneb@xxxxxxxxx>* wrote:
>>
>> From: Julie Krueger <juliereneb@xxxxxxxxx>
>> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Where politics hits the grass
>> To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Date: Friday, November 7, 2008, 3:02 AM
>>
>> You say things like "what can be done?" and shrug in resignation, but when
>> there are real, viable, approaches to solutions out there you aren't
>> interested in them? Or, rather, you aren't interested in what people who
>> are passionate about changing things are proposing? That sounds like
>> exactly what you're describing by "that's the way people are". The irony is
>> that you aren't interested in glancing at a website or discussing it which
>> actually suggests specific ways to make the economy thrive by working on the
>> environment...you seem to just want to complain that no one cares, there
>> aren't any decent ideas, and no one will pay attention ....wo, say, a
>> website like that...
>>
>> But whaddo I know.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Julie Krueger
>
>
>
>
--
Julie Krueger
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