That might be possible if I had Cable. But actually I was asking dosflounder whomever he or she is (fresh people to the list are good) because he/she seemed to have some education on the matter. I have read plenty on the subject but was interested in his/her take. (Btw, "give Judaism to the Jews" is a meaningless phrase.) I understand secularists, but be intelligent about it. Julie Krueger -----Original Message----- From: aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 8:44 AM Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: One fewer god Check out the History Channel. They did the history of Satan. Satan was an invention of the church. Unless you believe that God really did give Judaism to the Jews, it's a given that humans invented Judaism along with the Greek gods, the Egyptian gods, Hindu gods, Christianity, Heaven, Hell, angels, the whole ball of superstitious wax. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: 8/28/2006 12:35:36 AM Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: One fewer god I'm interested in how Zoroasterian myth contributed to combine w/ the Jewish Lucifer to produce the Christian Satan. I've read a fair amount about it but none of it makes alot of sense to me. Julie Kreuger elated to have a comparative mythologist on board Utopias are nice be we would die of boredom -----Original Message----- From: dosflounder@xxxxxxxxx To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 3:41 PM Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: One fewer god I am not sure that the dates associated with Zoroaster are really that certain. Some modern scholars believe that Zoroaster is the author of the GÃÂthÃÂ's (a part of the holy book of the Zoroastrians, the Avesta), which they date on linguistic grounds - in the fourteenth or thirteenth century BCE. Since the time-lines are uncertain they should be put aside. I would note however that I did not say that they originated monotheism but were original thinkers, meaning that they (Abraham and Zoroaster), unlike small and for the most part, forgotten monotheistic cults, were succesful in establishing a following that expanded into major religious groups. Are you saying that Judaism originated as an Egyptian cult? Were early "Jews" even Jews at all if they needed to be taught what monotheism is? J.S. The one thing we lack is a handy utopia. dreas Ramos <andreas@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: I wondered about this. Egyptian cults, such as Aten (1,300 BC), were monotheistic. That's where the early Jews learned about monotheism. Early Judaeism was polytheistic and there's plenty of examples for this in the Torah. As for Zoraster, that is 300-500 BC, so it was fairly later. In any case, neither Zoraster nor Abraham were original thinkers about monotheism. yrs, andreas www.andreas.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Paul" To: Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 11:23 AM Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: One fewer god > Jack Spratt wrote: > > "Abraham's or Zoroaster did not arrive at their teachings about god entirely > from their > tribal experience, they were original thinkers. God(s) come out of man's head > like Venus > ; coming out of Zeus' but what they look like and how they are accepted by > those nearby > becomes part of the culture." \ > You are, perhaps, thinking of Athena, who according to myth, literally > emerged from Zeus's > head, after he had swallowed her mother. Venus is the Roman counterpart of > Aphrodite, who > emerged from the foam after Cronos castrated his father, Uranos, and threw > his genitals > into the sea. Homer's account of her origins differs, and in it, Aphrodite is > the daughter > of Zeus and a sky goddess, Dione. > > The earlier version makes a better painting though. > > Robert Paul > Reed College > > > > > --------------------------------- > All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done > faster. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming mess age. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.6/428 - Release Date: 8/25/2006 ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free.