As Taylor tells us, we have a lot of reasons for the things we believe and do. You live in Canada and don't want a gun because guns kill people. The implication being that you don't want a gun because you don't want to kill anyone. I wasn't raised with any idea like that. Guns are offensive or defensive depending upon who has them and what his intention is. The guy coming to rob you and kill you if necessary intends his gun for offensive purposes, but you, if you had a gun could use it for defensive purposes. You could let him know you had a gun and perhaps that would cause him to leave yours tackle a less-defended house, or you could actually use it for defense if he were persistent. But, of course if there are few criminals in Canada who use guns to do such things as I described, then why bother? In such a peaceful environment only hunters, target shooters, and perhaps war-paraphernalia collectors would be interested in owning guns. At Boeing years ago, my office was across the aisle from a very Liberal fellow who was against the owning of guns. His wife was Canadian and he used to travel up there regularly - claimed to be treated rather shabbily by the Canadians by the way. This fellow lived near the beach and had something of a hippy life-style. Sometimes on holidays people who used the beach would park in his driveway so that he couldn't park his own car there. He had a lot of confrontations with them. He was a big guy and despite his Liberal leanings could confront with the best of them. He also had a baseball bat in his bedroom for defense. If you don't feel comfortable with a gun because you were taught certain things about them, had certain experiences with them, or you can't remember why but just don't like them, then you shouldn't have a gun. Get a baseball bat or get good locks on your doors and windows and hope if someone ever does try to break in that the police will get there before they get to you. Furthermore, your chances are probably good no one will target your house. Only 16% of men will contract prostate cancer sometime in their lives. The chances of your being robbed in your home are probably much lower than that. I think it entirely reasonable to rely upon the laws of chance and take no precautions against either eventuality. Lawrence _____ From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Paul Stone Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 2:00 PM To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Didn't I tell you so? At 04:26 PM 5/30/2006, you wrote: I havent heard anyone address the most important question: had these guys, the ones whose testosterone went up, ever fired guns before. So much myth has been created in recent years about guns; they probably had little or no experience with guns and thought they were doing something dangerous. I fired lots of b-b and pellet guns when I was a kid and did target practice a lot. Until I was an adult, I had never fired a gun. Since [hand] guns are basically a complete hassle to own -- and even more of a hassle to fire -- in Canada, the whole gun thing was never much of an issue. Besides, I'm basically non-violent and believe that guns DO at least ENABLE people to kill people. One day, a friend of mine and I went to Detroit and we were driving down a main street and we saw a "gun shop and range" that advertised "walk in and fire any of our guns". We looked at each other and said "hmm.. that sounds kind of interesting" (I was about 25 at the time). We went in and selected 6 or 7 guns and over the course of about 90 minutes went into the target room and fired off dozens of rounds of ammunition for different guns. Bill (my friend) had fired a gun a few times, so he went first -- i have to admit I was excited but petrified (the myths being what they are) and his first gun was a .357. The first shot was a very low BOOM with a concussive force that made my chest vibrate. I was intrigued to say the least. I lined up my cop-issue .38 revolver and fired off a shot. It was a firecracker compared to my pal Clint's long barrel wrecking machine. Not much of a kick and it felt "relatively" harmless. I emptied and reloaded the gun a few times and then retrieved my silhouetted man. I had some head shots and heart shots, but also many outliers that were complete misses. Not bad I thought. I put a new target up and sent it back down the line. Then it was on to my beretta. I think it had 12 in the mag and one in the chamber and I got to load the magazine myself. It was a bizarre feeling to actually load a gun like this -- so easy. I line it up and fired once. The kick was substantial compared to the little revolver, but because of its grip shape and the balance, it was easy to firmly re-aim in half a second as the slide slid back and chambered another bullet. Bill informed me that it was semi-automatic and I could basically fire it repeatedly, but that I needed to push the trigger each time. I tried a set of three. Bang bang bang. It felt good and I hit three good shots all to the head. I let loose, emptying the remaining rounds. Bang bang bang bang bang bang in a few seconds. What a rush, tremendously exciting. The next mag I felt a little profligate and just emptied the whole thing at once. I think only about half hit in the centre of the target, but I was gaining control. "These things are cool" With a little practice I could get good at this -- but why? Then I traded my 9mm for Bill's long barrel Magnum. I loaded up the revolving part (sorry, don't know terminology) with bullets and snapped it shut. I was hesitant remember the tremendous boom that it made when Bill fired it. I squinted and pulled the trigger. Carnage was unleashed from my hand. The gun kicked up a few inches and I realized that in the future, I need to set my wrists a little stiffer but relaxed so that i didn't hurt myself. The power of this gun was ridiculous and I began to, not so much fear it as much as I respected, more rightly "understood" the power of such a weapon. A few more guns, a glock, a special, a something something. We returned them and left. We walked out into the sunlight afternoon after our little fantasy land and I can honestly say I still didn't like guns. Now I had a reason. Although it was fun and a huge 'rush' [endorphins were kicking], it was also scary and brutal. I understood even more the SOLE reason for inventing/firing a gun is to do damage. Target practice is a useful offshoot (pardon the pun) that comes with wanting to become proficient. Afterall, men will compete with ANYTHING -- I saw electric belt-sander races at an autoshow once. But the reason that guns exist is to kill things. That's the flat truth. And they are perfectly designed to do that expeditiously and easily -- even an amateur can do it and that's proven every day in your streets, and sadly, more and more, in OUR previously basically gunless streets. So... yes, as Lawrence says, it is an interesting question as to what percentage of these people had ever handled a gun, had ever thought of it, had ever fired etc. I'd also be interested to see, of those who HAD, who was still charged by doing so -- sounds a bit adolescent and if you're testing adolescents, your testosterone readings are going to be COMPLETELY unreliable. As for firing a gun, I know I can never do it again for the first time and if I did, it wouldn't be nearly as novel and my testosterone levels would probably not be affected. I'd still feel the dreaded reality though. gunless, p ########## Paul Stone pas@xxxxxxxx Kingsville, ON, Canada