[lit-ideas] Re: Another Bush failure?
- From: "Andy Amago" <aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 00:36:24 -0400
Even though speculating on what might have happened has its definite
drawbacks, I tend here to agree with Stan that if Al Gore had won, things
would probably be very different. I'd go so far as to say that 9/11 may
not have happened because there was ample warning of it. Gore was
presidential material. Bush was not. That was clear in the debate between
them. Not due to presence or appearance or carriage, but in substantive
answers as to how they would respond to an attack. Listening to the debate
even I knew that Bush's answer was exactly the wrong thing to do. I also
doubt the neocons would have had anywhere near as much influence as they
did, although eventually they would have prevailed anyway. Also, if Gore
had won, half the country would hate him on some other ridiculous grounds
the way they hated Clinton. I hope Gore runs this time, but it's really
too late; immense damage has been done. Still, better late than never.
I'll bet some God forsaken Republican will get in, like Jeb Bush. Lou
Dobbs has been doing a series on how riggable, if not outright rigged, the
electronic voting machines are, so I don't have much hope for a Democrat.
> [Original Message]
> From: Stan Spiegel <writeforu2@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: 8/29/2006 12:05:27 AM
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Another Bush failure?
>
> OK writes:
> "The US appalling foreign policies are also due to
> deeper structural problems of the American political
> system and even the American society rather than just
> the personality of the current President and no, I
> don't think that a Democrat victory in elections would
> change much. If you want to call me anti-semitic or
> anti-American on the grounds of these views I guess
> that you are entitled to do so, but I on my part am
> entitled to not take your opinions at all seriously."
>
> S.S. responds:
> Your naivete about America stuns me.
>
> If the Democrats were to win both chambers of Congress in November and
> become the majority party, everything would change. If the Democrats had
the
> Presidency in 2000, when 9/11 took place (if it did, which is a question
> that I seriously doubt), we'd have pursued Osama Bin Ladin into
Afghanistan
> and, focussing on him, would have found him. And while terrorism might
have
> continued sporadically as it has over the past 25 years, it wouldn't have
> grown the way it has because of our mistaken plunge into the middle
> east.We'd never have gone into Iraq. All those people -- Iraqi and
> American -- whose lives were squandered would still be alive and
> flourishing. All that money -- some $8 billion a month -- spent in
support
> of that war would have been used here in America. Iran wouldn't be a
problem
> now because Saddam Hussein would have functioned to contain their
ambitions.
> We would never have sabotaged all those international treaties we've been
> part of for the past 60 years. We wouldn't have "the lone ranger" making
> unilateral decisions, eliminating checks and balances built into our
Federal
> system, curbing civil liberties, doing warrantless searches, ignoring the
> laws passed by Congress, afflicting the afflicted and comforting the
> comfortable.
>
> If your understanding of Israel is as knowledgeable as your understanding
of
> America, you have nothing thoughtful to offer any of us but your
groundless
> biases. It's not what you don't know, Omar. It's what you do know, that
just
> ain't so.
>
> Stan Spiegel
> Portland, Maine
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Omar Kusturica" <omarkusto@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 11:33 PM
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Another Bush failure?
>
>
> >
> >
> > SS writes:
> > I'll say it for Julie.
> >
> > *First of all, I suggest that you don't speak for
> > others. Julie is perfectly capable of expressing her
> > own opinions.
> >
> > You're an anti-semite. I won't beat around the
> > bush.
> > Your family credentials add a little surprise to the
> > mix, but your
> > words
> > matter more. At every turn you've found a way to make
> > Israel look bad.
> > It's
> > not Sharon or Olmert you've criticized -- as I've
> > criticized Bush and
> > the
> > Republican government -- but Israel. Your views are
> > not tempered with a
> > larger perspective that your background and obvious
> > intelligence would
> > suggest you have. I'm disappointed that that's the
> > case. I would like
> > to
> > learn from you. It's clear I can't.
> >
> > *If you think that criticizing Israel amounts to
> > anti-semitism then probably indeed we haven't got too
> > much to talk about. Yes, I do believe that Israel's
> > violent and oppressive policies toward the
> > Palestinians, the Lebanese, its own non-Jewish
> > minorities etc. over the years are not due solely to
> > personal failures of several politicians. People like
> > Sharon and Olmert were elected for certain reasons,
> > and they had reasons to formulate the political
> > programs they did and to act as they did. I think that
> > an analysis of Zionist ideology and the ways it has
> > entrenched itself in Israel's political, military, and
> > religious establishment, as well as in the
> > organizations promoting Israel's interests abroad, is
> > what is needed rather than just superficial criticisms
> > of whoever happens to be the current prime minister.
> > The US appalling foreign policies are also due to
> > deeper structural problems of the American political
> > system and even the American society rather than just
> > the personality of the current President and no, I
> > don't think that a Democrat victory in elections would
> > change much. If you want to call me anti-semitic or
> > anti-American on the grounds of these views I guess
> > that you are entitled to do so, but I on my part am
> > entitled to not take your opinions at all seriously.
> >
> > O.K.
> >
> > __________________________________________________
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