Re: new JAWS 9.0.515

Hi. No, it's just the copy and select option that's permanent. The others behave the same as they always did. 
Chris Hallsworth
BrailleNote mPower User
Website: www.chrishallsworth.co.nr
----- Original Message ----- From: "Yardbird" <yardbird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 9:11 PM
Subject: Re: new JAWS 9.0.515
Are you sure ALL the options on that menu (tree view, as you're referring to it) are permanent? Something someone else said here just recently sounded as 
if most of the menu items worked the way they used to, never minding the
change to a tree view, but that this was among a few items that when you set 
them, hold their setting. More an exception in this menu than the norm.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Moore" <donmoore@xxxxxxxxxxx> 
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 12:13 PM
Subject: Re: new JAWS 9.0.515


Yes, the option and others on the Tree View is permanent until you make
another change yourself.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Yardbird" <yardbird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 2:40 PM
Subject: Re: new JAWS 9.0.515



Hi don,

I've read the what's new. Honest. I had my questions in spite of that. As
for highlighting, yes, it makes a difference to us. For a change, FS is
using "highlight" in the normal sense, meaning "selected." And you can be
sure that whatever we deliberately select from a full page of text or a
Web
page or whatever really *is* highlighted as the evidence of what's been
selected. It happens that I can even see this, but it doesn't matter. It's 
real, sort of, if you know what I mean.

So it's just that I wasn't prepared for FS to be using the idea of
highlighting normally for a change. In other contexts, they seem to use it 
in novel ways. I don't even want to get my mind tangled up trying to
figure
it out right now. Anyway, I'm just down to trying to learn if the change
in
this option, if not others on the new version of the menu, is permanent
and
global, as it would be if you could make it in Configuration Manager. I'm
still waiting to hear that confirmed.

Thanks very much.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Moore" <donmoore@xxxxxxxxxxx> 
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 10:09 AM
Subject: Re: new JAWS 9.0.515


Hi Yardbird,

   In my case, that new feature did not cause Word to crash when I pasted
a
web page into a document, but it sure made a mess of things. That's what
sent me to the "What's New" section of the FS web site.

   With regard to your second question, the difference between Copy Full
Web Page and Copy Full Web Page with Highlights, it actually makes no
difference to us, but it does show sighted people what is highlighted on
the
web page, which may be useful if you are sending the web page to a sighted 
person.

Here is the documentation I found in the "What's New" section:

HTML Formatting Retained when Selecting, Copying, and Pasting

JAWS 9.0 will now properly copy the contents of a Web page to the virtual
buffer, and retain all the HTML formatting and markup when pasting the
information
into an HTML formatted e-mail or Word document.  This break through in
screen reading means that you can now copy and paste content and retain
its
formatting,
colors, and active hyperlinks, while discarding any of the other JAWS
messages, such as the number of items in a list, and so on. What you paste 
is essentially
the same rendering that a sighted user would see. Plus, you have the added advantage of being able to use JAWS HTML commands to read and navigate the 
Web
content when pasted into an e-mail message.

In addition, JAWS still provides a way to select copy and paste in the
traditional manner of stripping out the formatting if you choose. You will 
find this
option to toggle in the new Adjust JAWS Option dialog box (INSERT+V). You
may also wish to take advantage of the personalize settings option
(INSERT+SHIFT+V)
feature in JAWS to set up certain behavior for specific Web sites while
leaving the default set with the new solution that includes all the
formatting. (end of quote from "What's New")

Now, here is the documentation on this option directly from the Virtual
Cursor Options section of the Tree View, which I got by pressing Insert v
in
Internet Explorer, cursoring down to Virtual Cursor Options, then
cursoring
right to this particular option and then Tabbing once to the "Read Only"
section:

This option controls whether or not JAWS will use the

Text Selection and Copy Commands from the Web

browser, e-mail software, or other owner of a virtual

document.

With the From Virtual Cursor setting, text is copied as

plain text without formatting, pictures, and HTML

attributes.

With the Full Content setting, the selection is copied

directly from the application, and may include pictures,

links and formatting.

With the Full Content Using Onscreen Highlight setting,

the text and elements you select are highlighted

onscreen. (end of documentation from Tree View in I.E.)



   Hope this helps,



   Don
----- Original Message ----- From: "Yardbird" <yardbird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 3:25 PM
Subject: Re: new JAWS 9.0.515



Don,

I, too, had read through the list of new features, and appreciated the
potential usefulness of the new capability. But I didn't notice anything
about it being the new default, for one thing. Secondly, I don't
understand
why choosing the "wrong" mode of copying should have crashed Word. In
fact,
isn't that one of the stated purposes of this new capability? To copy a 
Web page in all its details into a document or an email? I could swear
that
was the point of it. In any case, I'll experiment, but if that's actually 
become the default, I'll regret that. I actually don't think of wanting
to
copy a Web page in that way, myself, so I don't really feel that
advantaged
by the change. But that's just me. Maybe a lot of people want to send
each
other Web pages with all their graphical features and links and stuff.
That's fine. No complaint. I just wish my own routine hadn't suddenly
become
a hassle for me.

Now, let me look below. You say there are three options now. do you
happen
to understand what the difference is between copy full web page and copy
full web page with highlights? Just curious.
Also, I'm hoping desperately that I can go into Configuration Manager and 
reset the default to virtual cursor copy. Can I? Where would I look for
this. In HTML options, probably?

Thanks. Wow, this is sort of a relief, anyway. Again, why should it be
crashing Word if that's what it was supposed to be for? That puzzles me.

I

pagees jjuexperiement,,efatul1defaultdefatul!
----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Moore" <donmoore@xxxxxxxxxxx> 
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: new JAWS 9.0.515


Hi again,

   Yes, I did have some of those problems, particularly with Copying and
Pasting from a web page into a Word document. Then, I looked at the
"What's
New" section on the FS site and found the solution.

In JAWS 9.0, when you are in Internet Explorer, you have the option to
Copy
& Paste a web page exactly as it appears to a sighted person, including
usable links & pictures, etc. or you can Copy & Paste the web page just
as
text, which is the way it was always Copied & Pasted in earlier versions
of
JAWS. To toggle this back & forth, open Internet Explorer & press Insert
v,
which now gives you a Tree View. Cursor down to Virtual Cursor Options
open
& cursor right. You will hear Select and Copy from Virtual Cursor or
Select
& Copy full content or Select & Copy full content using onscreen
highlight;
you can toggle among these 3 options by pressing the SpaceBar. Once you
are
on the option you want, Tab around to Execute & press the SpaceBar on the Execute button. Note: the option you want is Select and Copy from Virtual 
Cursor.



   Hope this helps,



   Don
----- Original Message ----- From: "Yardbird" <yardbird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 1:55 PM
Subject: Re: new JAWS 9.0.515



Don,

yes. Let's say you're on a Web page. A normal Web page. The printer
friendly
version of a New York Times article at nytimes.com, for example. Nothing 
unusual about the page itself.

Now, sometimes I like to copy and paste such an article into an email,
or
even into a Word document. I know other ways to send a URL or a Web
page,
and I know how to save the page as a text file and then copy and paste
from
that new file, if I wish to. But never mind these options. I'm not
looking
for an alternative. I'm simply describing a function that doesn't work
correctly anymore.

Okay. So I'm on the page. I press Control A to select all. I hear Jaws
report that so many characters have been selected, which is normal.
However,
and this may be a clue to anyone else who's partially sighted, as I am:
At
this point, the selected material always used to darken, which from
better-sighted days I remember was the visual clue to what material had
been
selected. Well, now the selected text doesn't change appearance. That
isn't
a complaint. It's a possible clue to eventual diagnosis by the pros.

Okay. Then I press Control C. I hear Jaws report that I've copied the
material to the clipboard. Except for the lack of contrast change up to
that
point, it must sound as if everything's normal. However, interestingly,
it's
at this point, as I perform the copy keystroke, that the selected text
darkens. This is weird. Again, maybe a clue to a programmer type.

Now, if I paste this material into an email I'm creating, it works,
although
with one odd glitch, which may be another clue about something: It
creates
so many blank lines above the first line of the text on the page that at 
least the first screen of my new email is blank, and to see that the
text
has been pasted, I have to arrow down quite a bit until I come to any of 
it.

Now, that's a bit odd, of course. But here's an even worse result. If I
paste the same thing into an open Word 2000 document,the Word doc
remains
blank for a moment, and then Word crashes, providing a dialogue asking
whether I want to send a report, etc. Afterward, for several launches,
Word
asks questions about the normal.dot template, which I wasn't aware of
having
altered, or forbids me to exit Word without doing something to save a
version of that template, when I have no idea why it's giving me a hard
time. If I play tricks, can't even remember how I got out of this last
time,
it finally gives up and lets me exit in a normal way, but the whole
experience is crazy.

And it is caused by my attempting to paste in a Web page I've copied to
clipboard, as I said. Something which has always been a perfectly normal 
operation.

I hope that's a good enough description. Has something like this
happened
to
you? Or were you just curious?
----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Moore" <donmoore@xxxxxxxxxxx> 
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: new JAWS 9.0.515


Hi Yardbird,

   You wrote, in part:

"IE 7 select all (control A)on a Web page for copying to clipboard
doesn't
work right" (end of quote)

Could you please elaborate on this?

   Don
----- Original Message ----- From: "Yardbird" <yardbird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 12:21 PM
Subject: Re: new JAWS 9.0.515



It seems some users aren't experiencing many, or any, inconveniences
with
this release, but over the couple of days I've had it installed, I'm
discovering quite an inventory of problems, which I'm compiling a list
of
so
that I can report as much as possible to FS at the same time. Here are
some
examples, and I'd be curious to know if anyone else is having the same
issues.

IE 7 select all (control A)on a Web page for copying to clipboard
doesn't
work right, and if I don't play games like pressing Control C twice
instead
of once (learned by experimenting), then trying to paste into an open
Word
document crashes Word.

In edit fields like the Save As dialogue in Word and the hotkey
assignment
in properties for a program icon, Jaws doesn't echo typing or speak
when
I
use Say Line. Oddly, it does speak the autocomplete as it fills in the
path
and filename edit field in Save As, which of course gets ahead of what
I'm
trying to do, but it won't allow me to read what has been auto filled
in
and
edit it. Nor to edit what I type in myself after selecting and deleting 
that
stuff. Useless.

When beginning to type a message in the message area of a new Outlook
Express message, Jaws speaks whatever it accidentally is focused on,
which
is sometimes the From line of the headers, sometimes the To line, and
so
forth. Very quirky, although more annoying than disabling, unlike the
above
examples.

And here's some unwelcome news to share. Scripts for AdAware and
Spyware
Blaster aren't working at all. I've explored both with the Jaws cursor, 
but
can't make much sense of either, and that's okay. I've exited this
version
and launched Jaws 8 so I can get things done today. Now to alt tab
around
the task bar and see if Lavasoft finally finished downloading the
latest
AdAware update. Now and then the update downloads as quickly as it
always
has, but more often, it creeps along or just sticks for minutes at a
time.
No, I'm not having download issues otherwise. It's Lavasoft, not me.

Okay, that's it so far. Going to write to FS and pretend to myself I'm
taking part in the public Beta testing. After the final release.
Whatever...
<shrug>

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