So have FS and the suppliers of, say, WindowEyes got together in a (nowadays, one presumes, smoke-free) room and fixed prices? Sounds a dodgy conspiracy theory to me. Yes, realistically there's little that we can do about it, in the short-term anyway, but it's theraputic to have an occasional moan on an email list! However, I'm sure that most listers have got better things to do, so I won't be continuing with this thread for much longer. John. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Stone - CW" <Alex.Stone-CW@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 10:04 AM Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: An old chestnut > Darren, yes of course we should, however we have to be realistic about > what happens in markets with only one or two players in them. I'm no > economist, but what tends to happen is that the one or two players end > up fixing prices between themselves. > Cheers > Alex > > -----Original Message----- > From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] > On Behalf Of Darren H > Sent: 07 September 2011 09:56 > To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: An old chestnut > > Sorry, that's a bit of a cop out. > > Just because we're blind, shouldn't we expect the kind of service from > our access providers that we do eveyrone else? > > If Jaws was a mainstream program with a good deal of other providers > available, it would never stand up to scrutiny. > > It only survives because it's the best of a fairly poor bunch. > > Cheers > Darren > > > -----Original Message----- > From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] > On Behalf Of Alex Stone - CW > Sent: 07 September 2011 09:55 > To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: An old chestnut > > Darren, it is unfortunate, however, even if there was any useful > competition we'd only end up with a cartel rather than the current > monopoly. > Cheers > Alex > > -----Original Message----- > From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] > On Behalf Of Darren H > Sent: 06 September 2011 17:25 > To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: An old chestnut > > Hi. > > It is just unfortunate that jaws hasn't got any competition to speak of. > > For all it's faults, it still seems to do a better job than any other > screen reader I've tried. > > Which obviously means, they can do what they jolly well please and we'll > just have to go along with it. > > Yes, of course businesses are there to make a profit. > > But the idea of business is to make a profit with a product that works > correctly and as intended, not half do a job but know that people will > purchase anyway because they have to. > > I'm in the fortunate position of being able to comfortably afford the > upgrades, but for those that aren't, it's a real pain in the gonads. > > Cheers > Darren > > > -----Original Message----- > From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] > On > Behalf Of Amie Slavin > Sent: 06 September 2011 17:15 > To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: An old chestnut > > But I don't think I do need to put myself in their position. I'm a > customer, a consumer. It is for them to put themselves, as a > profit-making business, in my position. Even as a self-employed sole > trader I wouldn't dream of using my need for income as an excuse for > monopolising a captive market with a substandard product. Neither would > any of the business people of my acquaintance. It is for businesses to > serve customers; not the other way around. > Bang :o) (for Tom) > A > > -----Original Message----- > From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] > On > Behalf Of Graham Page > Sent: 06 September 2011 16:12 > To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: An old chestnut > > Amie yes I'm afraid you are rather going off on one. You need to put > yourself in the position of the manufacturer of the screenreader who > relies on the screenreader sales for income. > > Yes there are problems with the over all model. Yes I have problems > with some aspects of the way freedom scientific in particular chooses to > do business i.e. aggressive use of law suits. > It is interesting to note that while apple has developed its own > screenreader, there is also some suggestion at least that the next > version of windows 8 will have a more useful screenreader built in. > > I do hope that there will come a time when expensive screenreaders that > cost more than the hardware they run on will not be required as they > will be part of the operating system but if programmers and technical > support people have to live off the revenue of sales from a screenreader > it is likely to be expensive. > > Regards > > Graham > -----Original Message----- > From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] > On > Behalf Of Amie Slavin > Sent: 06 September 2011 14:24 > To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: An old chestnut > > For sure, just as I'm looking at JAWS 12. What a confounded rip-off the > whole racket is. > Well done us for not swearing (lol) when, yet again, confronted with > this very old chestnut, centring on blind people being an easy target > for those intent on making money out of tech sighted people would laugh > out of the water. > Anyway, here I go, off on one: chunter chunter chunter. > Thanks Tom, for pointing this out. Important info. > A > > -----Original Message----- > From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] > On > Behalf Of tom.reid21@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Sent: 06 September 2011 14:17 > To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [jaws-uk] An old chestnut > > Hi folks, > > I've gone on for some time about access 2003--7 not being read properly > under xp. the tab is silent. > > Through sightandsound, we have a reply from F s saying that it is a > known issue under xp and vista. > > here's the punch line, though, it is scheduled to be fixed under jaws > 13. > > I've got an sma for this so may be okay if it is fixed, but, what about > those who haven't. > > Surely, this is not good enough. > > anybody affected should raise this. > > tom > > > > ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- > ** [mailto:jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] > ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: > ** jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > ** and in the Subject line type > ** unsubscribe > ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the > ** immediately-following link:- > ** [mailto:jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] > ** or send a message, to > ** jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3879 - Release Date: 09/05/11 > > ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- > ** [mailto:jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] > ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: > ** jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > ** and in the Subject line type > ** unsubscribe > ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the > ** immediately-following link:- > ** [mailto:jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] > ** or send a message, to > ** jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq > > ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- > ** [mailto:jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] > ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: > ** jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > ** and in the Subject line type > ** unsubscribe > ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the > ** immediately-following link:- > ** [mailto:jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] > ** or send a message, to > ** jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3879 - Release Date: 09/05/11 > > ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- > ** [mailto:jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] > ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: > ** jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > ** and in the Subject line type > ** unsubscribe > ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the > ** immediately-following link:- > ** [mailto:jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] > ** or send a message, to > ** jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq > > ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- > ** [mailto:jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] > ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: > ** jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > ** and in the Subject line type > ** unsubscribe > ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the > ** immediately-following link:- > ** [mailto:jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] > ** or send a message, to > ** jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq > > ---------- > Action for Blind People is an expert national organisation, ensuring > blind and partially sighted people get practical support in all aspects > of their lives. > > In April 2009 Action for Blind People became part of RNIB Group, in an > innovative partnership combining regional service delivery across > England. > This partnership enables both organisations to share skills and deliver > services in line with the UK Vision Strategy. > > For more information phone us through the RNIB Helpline on 0303 123 9999 > or visit our fully accessible website. > www.actionforblindpeople.org.uk > > Company Registration no: (England and Wales 26688) Registered Charity > no: > 205913 (England and Wales) SC040050 (Scotland) > > Save a tree. Don't print this email unless it's really necessary. > > ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- > ** [mailto:jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] > ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: > ** jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > ** and in the Subject line type > ** unsubscribe > ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the > ** immediately-following link:- > ** [mailto:jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] > ** or send a message, to > ** jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq > > ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- > ** [mailto:jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] > ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: > ** jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > ** and in the Subject line type > ** unsubscribe > ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the > ** immediately-following link:- > ** [mailto:jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] > ** or send a message, to > ** jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq > > ---------- > Action for Blind People is an expert national organisation, ensuring blind > and partially sighted people get practical support in all aspects of their > lives. > > In April 2009 Action for Blind People became part of RNIB Group, in an > innovative partnership combining regional service delivery across England. > This partnership enables both organisations to share skills and deliver > services in line with the UK Vision Strategy. > > For more information phone us through the RNIB Helpline on 0303 123 9999 > or visit our fully accessible website. > www.actionforblindpeople.org.uk > > Company Registration no: (England and Wales 26688) > Registered Charity no: 205913 (England and Wales) SC040050 (Scotland) > > Save a tree. Don't print this email unless it's really necessary. > > ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- > ** [mailto:jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] > ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: > ** jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > ** and in the Subject line type > ** unsubscribe > ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the > ** immediately-following link:- > ** [mailto:jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] > ** or send a message, to > ** jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq > ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: ** jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ** and in the Subject line type ** unsubscribe ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the ** immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] ** or send a message, to ** jaws-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq