Hi Carl, sorry for my late greeting.. with my 60 mails a day, less than half not trash, I'm sort of busy.... you said, "Have you noticed that if you toe the line in any organization everything is pleasant, but if you question any of the cherished beliefs you often become an outcast?" Carl Yes, such is he nature of many people... Separated Bretheren is much more charitable... I took the word outcast in its most formidable and uncharitable context, akin to being hated. True casting out or excommunicating, should be for charitable reasons, not personal. Philip.