Philip, 2. Do you accept that the Moon goes E->W in a geostatic (non-rotating World) system? <<< I accept that most certainly. >>> Okay, then let's stick with this one for now. Take two sheets of paper and draw circles representing the World and Moon on each one, as if you were looking down at the fictitious 'solar system' from the north celestial pole. Head the first 'Geocentric' and the second 'Heliocentric'. Now on the first, the World stays still and the Moon goes around clockwise (E->W as you agreed). On the second, the World spins anticlockwise (W->E) and the Moon goes around anticlockwise (W->E). Which way does the Saturn V have to be fired in the first system? Which way in the second system? In reality, they were launched from the east coast of America, out over the Atlantic Ocean. In a geostatic cosmos, it could not possibly have landed safely on the Moon. Neville. --------------------------------- ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!