Dont know how long the last call will last. In general I cannot understand a word that Robert is saying. I can to a large extent follow Neil and Mike. In practical terms. for geocentrism, I do not see the connection with GR or SR. In fact other than for calculating statistics I see no need for math, I can not see any sense at all in a reality that can only be demonstrated mathmatically with some special equation. Time travel and different clocks have been demonstrated in the laboratory. That I accept, and that is fully consistent with the Bible. The book of life is already closed. The future/past is there as a physical reality, no different from length breadth and depth. This alone should be sufficient proof of an aether, ably demonstrated by Asimov in his flat world analogy. Neil has confirmed my thought on how the satellites are positioned, and that they can be theoretically launched to fly east to west. I say if they do this it would confirm the HC people and end GC speculation. enter google for east -west orbits and only 17 pages come up. 12 of them concerned an Indian launch , which had to be typo errors or else the Indians a doomed to fail. One was a UFO and four were theoretical. That seemed strange. So I ask, lets consider the east west launcher. In theory we would be slowing the ship till it was stationary and in synch with the sun, which is alleged to be stationary....OK So to keep this bird up would be sheer motor force, before we got it going on further and accelerating up again towards the 111,000 k speed which would put it in the identical orbit as the geostat was except it would be going the other way making a 24 hour orbit. We would see it circling the earth twice. As I said before. This would prove HC and give GC a problem. The problem is the point where the ship is in synch with the sun. Philip.