Dear Alan (and others), I had a few days off from checking e-mails, so please excuse me if I have not responded to particular issues, or if my response is now out of date. Alan said, "You can't even explain the motion of the planets in a geocentric environment. You can predict them, yes, but you can't account for them. What forces cause the planets to have retrograde motion. Masses need forces to change their velocities. Where do these forces come from?" RM pointed out that General Relativity asserts the geocentric scenario to be as equally viable as the heliocentric one (which is why they are considered to each be particular cases of the acentric model of the universe). There is another thing that needs to be considered here, though, and that is that in Genesis 1, these bodies are "set in the firmament." If they are set in the firmament, then the force required to move them is not gravity, but rather is provided by the firmament itself. The last four hundred years has been spent trying to defend the heliocentric ideology, but what has been lacking is any concerted effort at trying to comprehend the nature and workings of the firmament. We do have a cause of their motion (just as you do with Newton's "law of universal gravitation"), but we do not have an understanding of that cause (just as you don't ...). Also, your comment, Alan, about "God's law of evolution," is a blasphemy, because it labels God a liar. Everything was created, fully formed, from the beginning. There was no evolution, if you believe the Bible. But then, there is no heliocentrism if you believe the Bible. Finally, you stated, "I notice everything has gone very quiet about Neville's flawed paper!" Since the paper was withdrawn, then why should we still be discussing it? Neville. "There is this great difference between the works of men and the works of God, that the same minute and searching investigation, which displays the defects and imperfections of the one, brings out also the beauties of the other." - Alexander Hislop, "The Two Babylons." Website www.midclyth.supanet.com --------------------------------- ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!