[ddots-l] Re: Are we speculating or do we know what is really happening?
- From: <ivanlopez@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2011 20:09:16 -0700
Thanks Omar
Ivan
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Are we speculating or do we know what is really
> happening?
> From: "Omar Binno" <omarbinno@xxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Fri, July 08, 2011 6:23 pm
> To: <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
>
> all the spectrasonics synths have the same interface.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <ivanlopez@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 9:14 PM
> Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Are we speculating or do we know what is really
> happening?
>
>
> Thanks for your explanation Brian,
>
> Thanks for the emphasis on spectrasonics Daren,
>
> Daren-I am very impressed with Spectrasonics - Products - Omnisphere,
> Stylus RMX, and Trilian
>
> Are Stylus RMX, and Trilian also accessible?
>
> The Spectrasonics softsynths are next on my to get list
>
> Cheers!
>
> Ivan
>
> ------- Original Message --------
> > Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Are we speculating or do we know what is really
> > happening?
> > From: "Omar Binno" <omarbinno@xxxxxxxxx>
> > Date: Fri, July 08, 2011 3:37 pm
> > To: <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >
> >
> > Darren,
> >
> > I agree with you, except the only problem is that it seems that a lot of
> > other companies make products that only use the kontakt player from ni.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Darren" <darren@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 4:25 PM
> > Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Are we speculating or do we know what is really
> > happening?
> >
> >
> > This is why I love spectrasonics products.
> >
> > Not only are they top draw products, they are able to be made accessible
> > to
> > a fair degree with HSC.
> >
> > I believe Window Eyes also has an HSC equivalent.
> >
> > In all honesty, I've not heard anything from Native Instruments that I
> > haven't been able to find elsewhere from other companies.
> >
> > Just because everyone's using it, doesn't mean it's good. It just means
> > there are a lot of sheep.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Darren
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > On
> > Behalf Of Bryan Smart
> > Sent: 08 July 2011 21:14
> > To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Are we speculating or do we know what is really
> > happening?
> >
> > Every situation is different.
> >
> > With Native Instruments, it's difficulty. It's a huge amount of work, that
> > won't earn them any sales, and they really don't even know how to do it if
> > they wanted.
> >
> > What makes something accessible? Does it need full keyboard navigation and
> > scripts to automatically make sure that everything is spoken? Is it fair
> > to
> > write scripts for only one screen reader? Who decides which screen reader
> > will be used to evaluate the accessibility?
> >
> > Is a program accessible if enough info can be reasoned out with the screen
> > review cursor to make most of the important features accessible?
> >
> > Most programmers in the world don't even know what a screen reader is,
> > nevermind how it works, either technically or from a user's perspective.
> > How
> > much time will it take for a given group of programmers to learn how the
> > screen reader gets info off of the screen so that they can at least get to
> > a
> > point where they can dream up a plan of how the might be able to
> > accommodate
> > it after lots of work? Who will help them with technical issues related to
> > accessibility? Will they have to pay a screen reader manufacturer or
> > Microsoft for consulting assistance, and where will that money come from?
> > How will the programmers learn how to operate the screen reader enough to
> > be
> > able to experiment with using it to examine what their program looks like
> > to
> > the screen reader?
> >
> > One thing that Apple got right was the design of the way that assistive
> > tech, like a screen reader, interacts with programs. If a Mac program
> > isn't
> > accessible, then there are clear directions to follow for a programmer to
> > fix it. The changes involve adding extra bits to their program that
> > essentially explain to VoiceOver how to read a particular control to the
> > user. The programmer doesn't need to know how screen readers work at all.
> > They just follow the directions to expose the appropriate info. They don't
> > even need to change how their program appears visually.
> >
> > On Windows, when blind people ask for accessibility, they usually don't
> > know
> > much more than the programmers as to what is technically involved in
> > making
> > something accessible. I hear people frequently ask for standard Windows
> > controls, but that is like asking web sites to show everything in black
> > and
> > white with no color, no background, no icons, and no substantial
> > formatting.
> > Appearance/theming/skinning is part of a program's image/brand, and, for
> > complex software, is chosen to make it easier to visually understand how
> > to
> > work it. If you ask a company that makes a product like that to use only
> > standard Windows controls, in their minds, you might as well have asked
> > them
> > to write a DOS version. They aren't going to destroy the look-and-feel
> > that
> > sighted people recognize in screen shots from the web and YouTube. No way.
> >
> > Some small software shops might tweak their programs to use standard
> > controls, or at least write text on the screen in a way that a screen
> > reader
> > can recognize with its screen review cursor, but, in many cases, these are
> > 1
> > or 2 man projects that didn't use a lot of custom design in the first
> > place,
> > not to help blind people, but because they couldn't afford the time to
> > make
> > something that looks as slick as the professional program that they're
> > competing against. They also probably just run on a single platform, like
> > a
> > VST version for Windows.
> >
> > Native Instruments directly draws everything. They don't use any operating
> > system features for their user interface if they can at all help it. They
> > have designed a system that their plug ins can use to display the same
> > interface, regardless if it is running on Windows or Mac. They don't have
> > time to make a version that is just for one OS and its user interface
> > qwerks. They sell lots of synths directly, and they must create DXI, VST
> > 2/3, RTAS, and Re-wire versions for Windows, as well as VST, AU, RTAS, and
> > others for Mac. In some cases, each of the above has to have a 32 and 64
> > bit
> > version. Further, many companies sell products built on their sampler
> > platforms like Kontakt, and those people need to be able to create a
> > single
> > version, and have it run in all of those formats, and on Windows and Mac.
> > That's why they make their own generic user interface that has nothing to
> > do
> > with Windows or Mac OS.
> >
> > That might seem like they could fix it in one place and be fine, but it
> > isn't that simple. If they change the code that renders the UI, then they
> > have to go through a long process of testing it on multiple formats and
> > OSes
> > to be sure that one of their products doesn't react strangely now. All
> > might
> > seem fine, until they get reports that the 64-bit RTAS version ofone of
> > the
> > plugs is not displaying correctly, but only on Mac. All of their partner
> > developers that build on Kontakt will also have to re-test. Most of them
> > use
> > Kontakt and the like so that they don't have to be expert programmers with
> > multiple formats and operating systems, but a radical redesign of the user
> > interface rendering code means that they must re-test everything
> > everywhere,
> > to be sure no surprises pop up.
> >
> > It is a technically complex process, will require lots of money to study
> > and
> > then fix, and lots of people involved don't care to create work and
> > expense
> > for themselves, or alienate customers, by fixing what they don't consider
> > is
> > broken. To make it happen, you must be able to supply some clear idea of
> > what must be technically accomplished, and where the people and money will
> > come from to fix it. Even then, the project managers won't want to take on
> > new projects that will put them behind schedule, the developers won't want
> > the added work and bugs, the sales people won't want to upset the partner
> > developers, the partner developers will resent the required money and time
> > that is being asked of them, and upper management will want to know why
> > we're spending all of this money on something that is distracting us from
> > finishing the version that we need to put out on schedule if we're going
> > to
> > meet earnings estimates this year.
> >
> > If it was a quick and simple fix, no one would mind. For them to do
> > anything, though, is a major technical project. I'd like to use their
> > stuff,
> > but I realize why it isn't going to happen. I feel like people just get
> > too
> > worked up over Native Instruments.
> >
> > There are choices. If you are really doing this for a living, then you're
> > earning good money, and you can pay what it costs to put together the sort
> > of solution that will allow you to compose with these sorts of sounds.
> > That's what sighted composers do, so it isn't like you're having to pay
> > that
> > much more to be able to still accomplish this sort of goal if you're
> > blind.
> > If it's just a hobby for you, and you aren't rich enough to drop $30,000+
> > on
> > a hobby, then, what can I say, the only alternative is to make the best of
> > the alternatives, while everyone else waits for Native Instruments to
> > care.
> > Maybe you can compose with a library that you can use, and sub-contract to
> > someone else with the pro libraries to arrange/mix it for you.
> >
> > Bryan
> >
> > On Jul 7, 2011, at 10:59 AM, <ivanlopez@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > <ivanlopez@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I am hearing folks say at least three different things regarding
> > > making software blind user friendly: If some companies do not make
> > > blind user software on the basis of difficulty, that is one thing, if
> > > they don’t do it on the basis of misinformation, that is another, and
> > > if they don’t do it because it is something they can do but they just
> > > don’t want to do it, that is another.
> > >
> > > For reason one, acceptance of the temporary dilemma is viable, for the
> > > second, as someone pointed out, if we blind folks know it will be an
> > > easy fix, lets educate the companies, if the 3rd is the reality, we
> > > might want to consider a civil rights rout.
> > >
> > > However, it looks like there is lots of speculation with the reality
> > > we are facing: are companies really not making their software user
> > > friendly because it is difficult? Are the companies not making their
> > > software accessible because they need more information because they
> > > lack expertise? Or are they not doing it on the basis of arbitrary or
> > > capricious action? Who really knows? I don’t
> > >
> > > -------- Original Message --------
> > >> Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Native instruments?
> > >> From: Chris Smart <csmart8@xxxxxxxxx>
> > >> Date: Thu, July 07, 2011 7:09 am
> > >> To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> At 08:08 AM 7/7/2011, you wrote:
> > >>> I think that a lot of companies think that making a piece of
> > >>> software accessible will require a complete reworking of the gui.
> > >>> There are much easier and more reliable ways of making programs
> > >>> accessible these days.
> > >>
> > >> Gord, I write companies regularly about this, but I don't have enough
> > >> facts to make a strong case that will make sense to the programming
> > >> folks.
> > >>
> > >> Can you elaborate on some of these methods?
> > >>
> > >> thanks
> > >> Chris
> > >>
> > >> PLEASE READ THIS FOOTER AT LEAST ONCE!
> > >> To leave the list, click on the immediately following link:
> > >> ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe
> > >> If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
> > >> ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> and in the Subject line type
> > >> unsubscribe
> > >> For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
> > >> immediately following link:
> > >> ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq or send a message, to
> > >> ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx and in the Subject line type faq
> > >
> > > PLEASE READ THIS FOOTER AT LEAST ONCE!
> > > To leave the list, click on the immediately following link:
> > > ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=subscribe
> > > If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
> > > ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > and in the Subject line type
> > > unsubscribe
> > > For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
> > > immediately following link:
> > > ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject q or send a message, to
> > > ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx and in the Subject line type faq
> > >
> >
> > <
> >
> > PLEASE READ THIS FOOTER AT LEAST ONCE!
> > To leave the list, click on the immediately following link:
> > ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=subscribe
> > If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
> > ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > and in the Subject line type
> > unsubscribe
> > For other list commands such as vacation mode,
> > click on the immediately following link:
> > ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subjectq or
> > send a message, to
> > ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > and in the Subject line type
> > faq
> >
> > PLEASE READ THIS FOOTER AT LEAST ONCE!
> > To leave the list, click on the immediately following link:
> > ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe
> > If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
> > ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > and in the Subject line type
> > unsubscribe
> > For other list commands such as vacation mode,
> > click on the immediately following link:
> > ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq or
> > send a message, to
> > ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > and in the Subject line type
> > faq
>
> PLEASE READ THIS FOOTER AT LEAST ONCE!
> To leave the list, click on the immediately following link:
> ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=subscribe
> If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
> ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> and in the Subject line type
> unsubscribe
> For other list commands such as vacation mode,
> click on the immediately following link:
> ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subjectq or
> send a message, to
> ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> and in the Subject line type
> faq
>
> PLEASE READ THIS FOOTER AT LEAST ONCE!
> To leave the list, click on the immediately following link:
> ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe
> If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
> ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> and in the Subject line type
> unsubscribe
> For other list commands such as vacation mode,
> click on the immediately following link:
> ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq or
> send a message, to
> ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> and in the Subject line type
> faq
PLEASE READ THIS FOOTER AT LEAST ONCE!
To leave the list, click on the immediately following link:
ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe
If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
and in the Subject line type
unsubscribe
For other list commands such as vacation mode,
click on the immediately following link:
ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject�q or
send a message, to
ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
and in the Subject line type
faq
Other related posts:
