[ddots-l] Re: Are we speculating or do we know what is really happening?
- From: "Darren" <darren@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2011 05:23:18 +0100
Not entirely true.
Stylus has a different interface to Trillian and Omnisphere.
However, it is still accessible with HSC.
Cheers
Darren
-----Original Message-----
From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Omar Binno
Sent: 09 July 2011 02:24
To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Are we speculating or do we know what is really
happening?
all the spectrasonics synths have the same interface.
----- Original Message -----
From: <ivanlopez@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 9:14 PM
Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Are we speculating or do we know what is really
happening?
Thanks for your explanation Brian,
Thanks for the emphasis on spectrasonics Daren,
Daren-I am very impressed with Spectrasonics - Products - Omnisphere, Stylus
RMX, and Trilian
Are Stylus RMX, and Trilian also accessible?
The Spectrasonics softsynths are next on my to get list
Cheers!
Ivan
------- Original Message --------
> Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Are we speculating or do we know what is really
> happening?
> From: "Omar Binno" <omarbinno@xxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Fri, July 08, 2011 3:37 pm
> To: <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
>
> Darren,
>
> I agree with you, except the only problem is that it seems that a lot
> of other companies make products that only use the kontakt player from ni.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Darren" <darren@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 4:25 PM
> Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Are we speculating or do we know what is really
> happening?
>
>
> This is why I love spectrasonics products.
>
> Not only are they top draw products, they are able to be made
> accessible to a fair degree with HSC.
>
> I believe Window Eyes also has an HSC equivalent.
>
> In all honesty, I've not heard anything from Native Instruments that I
> haven't been able to find elsewhere from other companies.
>
> Just because everyone's using it, doesn't mean it's good. It just
> means there are a lot of sheep.
>
> Cheers
> Darren
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On
> Behalf Of Bryan Smart
> Sent: 08 July 2011 21:14
> To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Are we speculating or do we know what is really
> happening?
>
> Every situation is different.
>
> With Native Instruments, it's difficulty. It's a huge amount of work,
> that won't earn them any sales, and they really don't even know how to
> do it if they wanted.
>
> What makes something accessible? Does it need full keyboard navigation
> and scripts to automatically make sure that everything is spoken? Is
> it fair to write scripts for only one screen reader? Who decides which
> screen reader will be used to evaluate the accessibility?
>
> Is a program accessible if enough info can be reasoned out with the
> screen review cursor to make most of the important features accessible?
>
> Most programmers in the world don't even know what a screen reader is,
> nevermind how it works, either technically or from a user's perspective.
> How
> much time will it take for a given group of programmers to learn how
> the screen reader gets info off of the screen so that they can at
> least get to a point where they can dream up a plan of how the might
> be able to accommodate it after lots of work? Who will help them with
> technical issues related to accessibility? Will they have to pay a
> screen reader manufacturer or Microsoft for consulting assistance, and
> where will that money come from?
> How will the programmers learn how to operate the screen reader enough
> to be able to experiment with using it to examine what their program
> looks like to the screen reader?
>
> One thing that Apple got right was the design of the way that
> assistive tech, like a screen reader, interacts with programs. If a
> Mac program isn't accessible, then there are clear directions to
> follow for a programmer to fix it. The changes involve adding extra
> bits to their program that essentially explain to VoiceOver how to
> read a particular control to the user. The programmer doesn't need to
> know how screen readers work at all.
> They just follow the directions to expose the appropriate info. They
> don't even need to change how their program appears visually.
>
> On Windows, when blind people ask for accessibility, they usually
> don't know much more than the programmers as to what is technically
> involved in making something accessible. I hear people frequently ask
> for standard Windows controls, but that is like asking web sites to
> show everything in black and white with no color, no background, no
> icons, and no substantial formatting.
> Appearance/theming/skinning is part of a program's image/brand, and,
> for complex software, is chosen to make it easier to visually
> understand how to work it. If you ask a company that makes a product
> like that to use only standard Windows controls, in their minds, you
> might as well have asked them to write a DOS version. They aren't
> going to destroy the look-and-feel that sighted people recognize in
> screen shots from the web and YouTube. No way.
>
> Some small software shops might tweak their programs to use standard
> controls, or at least write text on the screen in a way that a screen
> reader can recognize with its screen review cursor, but, in many
> cases, these are
> 1
> or 2 man projects that didn't use a lot of custom design in the first
> place, not to help blind people, but because they couldn't afford the
> time to make something that looks as slick as the professional program
> that they're competing against. They also probably just run on a
> single platform, like a VST version for Windows.
>
> Native Instruments directly draws everything. They don't use any
> operating system features for their user interface if they can at all
> help it. They have designed a system that their plug ins can use to
> display the same interface, regardless if it is running on Windows or
> Mac. They don't have time to make a version that is just for one OS
> and its user interface qwerks. They sell lots of synths directly, and
> they must create DXI, VST 2/3, RTAS, and Re-wire versions for Windows,
> as well as VST, AU, RTAS, and others for Mac. In some cases, each of
> the above has to have a 32 and 64 bit version. Further, many companies
> sell products built on their sampler platforms like Kontakt, and those
> people need to be able to create a single version, and have it run in
> all of those formats, and on Windows and Mac.
> That's why they make their own generic user interface that has nothing
> to do with Windows or Mac OS.
>
> That might seem like they could fix it in one place and be fine, but
> it isn't that simple. If they change the code that renders the UI,
> then they have to go through a long process of testing it on multiple
> formats and OSes to be sure that one of their products doesn't react
> strangely now. All might seem fine, until they get reports that the
> 64-bit RTAS version ofone of the plugs is not displaying correctly,
> but only on Mac. All of their partner developers that build on Kontakt
> will also have to re-test. Most of them use Kontakt and the like so
> that they don't have to be expert programmers with multiple formats
> and operating systems, but a radical redesign of the user interface
> rendering code means that they must re-test everything everywhere, to
> be sure no surprises pop up.
>
> It is a technically complex process, will require lots of money to
> study and then fix, and lots of people involved don't care to create
> work and expense for themselves, or alienate customers, by fixing what
> they don't consider is broken. To make it happen, you must be able to
> supply some clear idea of what must be technically accomplished, and
> where the people and money will come from to fix it. Even then, the
> project managers won't want to take on new projects that will put them
> behind schedule, the developers won't want the added work and bugs,
> the sales people won't want to upset the partner developers, the
> partner developers will resent the required money and time that is
> being asked of them, and upper management will want to know why we're
> spending all of this money on something that is distracting us from
> finishing the version that we need to put out on schedule if we're
> going to meet earnings estimates this year.
>
> If it was a quick and simple fix, no one would mind. For them to do
> anything, though, is a major technical project. I'd like to use their
> stuff, but I realize why it isn't going to happen. I feel like people
> just get too worked up over Native Instruments.
>
> There are choices. If you are really doing this for a living, then
> you're earning good money, and you can pay what it costs to put
> together the sort of solution that will allow you to compose with these
sorts of sounds.
> That's what sighted composers do, so it isn't like you're having to
> pay that much more to be able to still accomplish this sort of goal if
> you're blind.
> If it's just a hobby for you, and you aren't rich enough to drop
> $30,000+ on a hobby, then, what can I say, the only alternative is to
> make the best of the alternatives, while everyone else waits for
> Native Instruments to care.
> Maybe you can compose with a library that you can use, and
> sub-contract to someone else with the pro libraries to arrange/mix it for
you.
>
> Bryan
>
> On Jul 7, 2011, at 10:59 AM, <ivanlopez@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> <ivanlopez@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
>
> > I am hearing folks say at least three different things regarding
> > making software blind user friendly: If some companies do not make
> > blind user software on the basis of difficulty, that is one thing,
> > if they don't do it on the basis of misinformation, that is another,
> > and if they don't do it because it is something they can do but they
> > just don't want to do it, that is another.
> >
> > For reason one, acceptance of the temporary dilemma is viable, for
> > the second, as someone pointed out, if we blind folks know it will
> > be an easy fix, lets educate the companies, if the 3rd is the
> > reality, we might want to consider a civil rights rout.
> >
> > However, it looks like there is lots of speculation with the reality
> > we are facing: are companies really not making their software user
> > friendly because it is difficult? Are the companies not making their
> > software accessible because they need more information because they
> > lack expertise? Or are they not doing it on the basis of arbitrary
> > or capricious action? Who really knows? I don't
> >
> > -------- Original Message --------
> >> Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Native instruments?
> >> From: Chris Smart <csmart8@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> Date: Thu, July 07, 2011 7:09 am
> >> To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>
> >>
> >> At 08:08 AM 7/7/2011, you wrote:
> >>> I think that a lot of companies think that making a piece of
> >>> software accessible will require a complete reworking of the gui.
> >>> There are much easier and more reliable ways of making programs
> >>> accessible these days.
> >>
> >> Gord, I write companies regularly about this, but I don't have
> >> enough facts to make a strong case that will make sense to the
> >> programming folks.
> >>
> >> Can you elaborate on some of these methods?
> >>
> >> thanks
> >> Chris
> >>
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>
> <
>
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