Hi Tim, Thanks for the feedback. Let's keep the discussion going. I'll throw out some opposing thoughts in an effort to cover all bases. The only problem I'm aware of is money. Not an uncommon problem - do doubt. Here's the thing, the pilots will likely be scanner qualified, observer qualified, and pilot qualified. More than likely they will be doing the training for the benefit of the other guys - so they can get qualified. So I'm not excited about telling them they'll have to pay more when they're already doing a favor to the guys in the plane and to the squadron generally. This won't always be the case as some of the guys will be mission pilot trainees, but for the cases when they're qualified I think charging more is unfair. I relate to your point about having limited funds - speaking for myself only, the same is true. So what can we do to compensate for the guys as reflected in my scenario? What division do we come up with for qualified pilots flying with non qual crew. And to make it even more complex, what if a qual pilot flies with a qual scanner, but nonqual observer? How fancy are we going to get, and moreover, who will do the accounting? Again, not trying to squelch your point. In fact, let me encourage you to keep up the discussion. I really would like to see a system put in place that is equitable for everyone. Please put something together and we'll keep modifying it until we have something that will work. And, and, keep in mind that we'll have to find someone willing to keep track of the accounting as well. I sure don't want to do it - are you willing? Keep in mind that the billing will be sent from wing to the pilot directly. One thing we must avoid is leaving the pilots stuck with a bill without any funding from anyone involved (whether because they're confused about what to pay or because they don't agree with the system of division). Thanks again Tim. I'll look forward to hearing your thoughts. Cheers, Dan ---- Tim Griffith <tgriffith@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: I'm going to have to say that Daniel has a good point, merely because I won't be sitting in the left seat anytime soon. If everyone were to get equal left seat time, then I'm all for splitting equally amongst the flight crews. The money used for UTM's will becoming from the same fund I am/will be using towards my Private. So splitting the costs in 1/4's or even 1/3's (PIC 2/3, Observer and Scanner spilt other 1/3) would benefit those who won't sit left seat. I'm would like Omaha Composite to be the top Mission Ready unit, but I also have to watch out for my wallet. Other than the complexity of "who owes what", what are the other flaws with this method of funding? Tim >>> "Daniel O'Mara" <daniel_o_mara@xxxxxxxxxxx> 11/9/2006 8:50 PM >>> On splitting flight costs - I was thinking that maybe it would be best if the person who logs PIC, is counted as two persons. Scanner - 1/4 of cost Observer - 1/4 of cost PIC - 2/4 or with two scanners 1/5, 1/5, 1/5 and 2/5s. just a quick thought Daniel O'Mara >From: Dan <DanHollins@xxxxxxx> >Reply-To: cap@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >To: cap@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >Subject: [Civil Air Patrol] Re: UTM Funding >Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 19:13:14 -0600 > >Background: >1 Splitting costs are potentially very complex. 2 All ideas are welcome, >but we'll need someone willing to do the accounting if we get fancy. >3 The easiest concept is air crews split flight costs ($85/hour wet - >divide by 3, or 4 with 2 scanners). Ground teams split ground costs >(vehicle fuel). > [2 scanners is tough due to weight and balance issues - would most >likely be divided by 3] >4 Let us know your thoughts pro and con. > >Scott Voichoskie wrote: >>ALCON, >> >>Captain Hollins and I discussed, in minor detail, the conversation >>regarding >>paying for UTM's, specifically the flight time, out of our own pockets. >>We >>thought that the most equitable way would be to split the entire cost >>evenly >>among all members involved. This would eliminate a lot of confusion and >>all >>of us will be benefiting from the training to get qualified. Please let >>us >>know your thoughts. Be advised, having a different solution will >>self-charge yourself with the task of implementation of that solution. >>Please don't let that scare you if you indeed have a better solution. >> >>Scott M. Voichoskie >>City Administrator >>City of Ashland >>2304 Silver Street >>Ashland, NE 68003-1500 >> >>Voice: (402) 944-3387 >>FAX: (402) 944-3386 >> >>http://www.ashland-ne.com/ >> >> >> >> > _________________________________________________________________ Get today's hot entertainment gossip http://movies.msn.com/movies/hotgossip?icid=T002MSN03A07001