[bksvol-discuss] Re: Pet Peeve - it's a dot and the word and both!

  • From: "Judy s." <cherryjam@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 18:51:09 -0500

Carrie, Sue and Lynn:
The more I've read of this thread the more puzzled I've been, so I went and looked at the entry because I've never seen an "and" between author's names. smile. But when I tried copying the book listing you're using as an example and pasting it into an email I got an "and" too between the authors' names!
Visually, the authors' names are separated on the screen by a graphic dot. However, I then looked at the source html code for the page. The actual word "and" is used in the code between author's names!
Because of the way the actual code is written, the "and" is "hidden" by the html code from displaying on an actual visual display by using an html command that calls a cascading style sheet which turns it into the dot.
From looking at the code, I'm guessing that the way the multiple authors' names are displayed will be correct visually, but incorrect for screen readers because screen readers are apparently reading the code which says "and" without correctly calling the style sheet that suppresses the and.
If that doesn't make sense, the long and short of it is: the site is both right AND wrong, depending on what kind of device you are using to access the information. And it shouldn't be that way, because it means that the site is displaying different information depending on what device you use to access the site.
I'm guessing here that it might be helpful to the bookshare staff to know exactly what software and hardware we're each using to access the site.
It displays for me the way it does for Carrie, as a dot between the author's names. I am using the Firefox browser and I visually look at the screen on a standard Windows operating system. 

Judy s.


siss52 wrote:

Lynnsky, I'm sending you a big cyberhug!!  Thanks!!!!!
Sue S. ----- Original Message ----- 
*From:* Lynn I <mailto:lynnskyi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*To:* bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Sent:* Thursday, August 06, 2009 6:02 PM
*Subject:* [bksvol-discuss] Re: Pet Peeve

Hi Sue,
All I did was highlight the material I wanted to copy; then did a (ctrl c) and copied it to the clipboard. Then I inserted it into the e-mail message. To me, it looks the same even when I insert it into Notepad. The "and" is still there. And it is not the (&) symbol, but the word itself. Blessings. Lynn I 
    ----- Original Message -----
    *From:* siss52 <mailto:siss52@xxxxxxxxxxx>
    *To:* bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
    *Sent:* Thursday, August 06, 2009 5:57 PM
    *Subject:* [bksvol-discuss] Re: Pet Peeve

    Hi Lynnsky!!
Bravo for yoou! That is exactly what I am talking about. Thanks 
    for these examples because I did not know how to copy them.  But
    Carrie still may not believe it.  She said that when she copies them
    to an email it shows up as and.
Carrie, go to it like we would, not like you would. Sue S. ----- Original Message ----- 
    *From:* Lynn I <mailto:lynnskyi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
    *To:* bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
    *Sent:* Thursday, August 06, 2009 5:53 PM
    *Subject:* [bksvol-discuss] Re: Pet Peeve

    Hi Carrie and Sue,
I didn't read the beginning of this thread so I hope I'm not 
    misunderstanding what you're referring to, Sue.
On the (browse new books) page books by multiple authors are being 
    presented with an "and" between author names. Here are some examples
    I copied from that page.
block quote Martin And Meditations On The South Valley by Baca, Jimmy Santiago • 
    and Levertov, Denise
How To Be An Egyptian Princess by Morley, Jacqueline • 
    and Hewetson, Nicholas J.
Japanese Light by Baldwin, Jan • 
    and Barber, Kimiko

        block quote end
HTH Blessings. Lynn I ----- Original Message ----- 
        *From:* Carrie Karnos <mailto:ckarnos@xxxxxxxxx>
        *To:* bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        <mailto:bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
        *Sent:* Thursday, August 06, 2009 5:30 PM
        *Subject:* [bksvol-discuss] Re: Pet Peeve

        Hi Sue,

        When I look at the new books page, I see dots between author
        names, no "and"s anywhere in the author field. Maybe screen
        readers convert dots to "and"s? No idea.

        Carrie

        ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        *From:* siss52 <siss52@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:siss52@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
        *To:* bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        <mailto:bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
        *Sent:* Thursday, August 6, 2009 2:58:07 PM
        *Subject:* [bksvol-discuss] Re: Pet Peeve

        Carrie,
When I look at the new books page, I see it as "and". That is 
        how I found those two examples today.  I did not get them from
        John's list.  Not on the book information page, but on the page
        people see before they click on that page.
Sue S. ----- Original Message ----- 
        *From:* Carrie Karnos <mailto:ckarnos@xxxxxxxxx>
        *To:* bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        <mailto:bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
        *Sent:* Thursday, August 06, 2009 4:32 PM
        *Subject:* [bksvol-discuss] Re: Pet Peeve

        Now I'm really confused. I don't see the word "and" anywhere in
        the metadata for The Coral Reef. Its authors are Karen Zipkas
        <dot> Mark Norman. And if you look on its book information page,
        you can find "Other books by Karen Zipkas" and "Other books by
        Mark Norman", meaning that the system thinks that they are two
        separate authors.

        I may have solved the mystery. I just copied the author field
        over to this email, and it was copied as "Karen Zipkas and Mark
        Norman" even though on the screen it's Karen Zipkas <dot> Mark
        Norman. Maybe whenever the system sees the <dot> between author
        names, it says "and" instead. Has it always done this, or is
        this saying "and" new?

        In any event, the system is not concatenating two author names
        as one, which was my main concern.

        Carrie

        ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        *From:* siss52 <siss52@xxxxxxxxxxx>
        *To:* bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        *Sent:* Thursday, August 6, 2009 1:39:16 PM
        *Subject:* [bksvol-discuss] Re: Pet Peeve
Hi Carrie, Two of them are The Coral Reef, and The Grand Inquisitor. There 
        are more, I know.  But I found these two in the second hundred
        books.
Sue S. 
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