Hi Sarah,
Janice has told me that tables will be converted correctly from RTF to
DAISY in the latest release. This is in conjunction with the BRF files
having proper pagination, or as proper as it can be with the current state
of the automated tools (stripper). New books should see these improvements
and BookShare has plans in the future to reprocess the entire collection so
these changes are seen in all books.
Jake
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sarah Van Oosterwijck" <curiousentity@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 4:27 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Guidance needed
Yes, you are correct that the results of automated conversion to BRF do not result in a braille file as perfect as they would be if done by a person, but if we require perfection before we will read books we aren't the right subscribers for bookshare.
I am very close to a perfectionist myself, but I know perfection is unattainable, and incompatible with large numbers of books beeing made available. I need large numbers of books in order to feed my reading addiction, so very high quality will do.
It's not only the BRF files that suffer from automatic conversion, though they suffer slightly more than the DAISY versions of each book. check out the following web site for tips.
http://www.jbrownell.com/bks/tips/
A tip I contributed on problem characters discusses some of the problems that are currently being caused by the system. Unfortunately that doesn't even cover a number of other serious flaws. Formatting in braille isn't messed up--it simply doesn't exist! Bold doesn't seem to appear in DAISY files, but italics have been found. You should also know that books submitted and automatically processed will loose chapter titles if you do not place a page number or copy of the usual running header found in the book at the top of those pages starting with the chapter title. The system is trying to clear out those running headers so they don't bother readers, but the script wasn't programmed to be smart enough to tell the difference between repeating text that should be removed and repeating text that is valuable to the reader.
All tables that appear in the book will be garbled beyond readability both in BRF and DAISY files. The system doesn't seem to be aware of the concept of a table, and if you try to get around that by redoing them it probably won't work either. That is because tabs are removed from the file without replacing them with anything.
Bookshare has been told about these issues and has promised to work on solutions. Of course that takes time and there is also probably some disagreement about how to effect those changes.
Basically, if you have a problem with the bookshare system tell bookshare not this list because this list is pretty much aware of the problems. I'm not sure that the bookshare staff is as familiar with access technology in general, and braille in particular, so tips you can provide them might be helpful. Complaints without any supporting information or possible solutions are probably a good deal less useful.
Sarah Van Oosterwijck Assistive Technology Trainer http://home.earthlink.net/~netentity
----- Original Message ----- From: "Westmoreland, J. R." <jr@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 3:05 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Guidance needed
Okay, that explains why I find problems with the .brf files. The files can't just be imported into DBT, or whatever, and be expected to work right. From real world experience I have found several problems. Here is a short list for the curious: 1) Often cases where the italic/bold codes land in the wrong place on conversion and generate incorrect output. 2) Elipsis issues. These can come from many causes. 3) Things that cause spaces to appear in the braille, thereby tripping up the translator. 4) Format problems that get introduced by the conversion of .doc files to .dxp, and I assume other input processes. E.g., poem, etc. 5) Blank lines that either shouldn't, or sometimes should, be there. ETC.
All of the above can't be handled, at least not that I know of, yet in an automated fashion.
Maybe I'm just being a bit hyper but I feel like if one is going to do it it should be done to the best of ones ability. Braille should be the best we can possibly make it and not an afterthought.
Sorry for the soapbox discussion. I guess I should jump down and go back to my cage. <smile>
Thanks, J. R.
______________________________ J. R. Westmoreland - Network Planner PacifiCorp Phone: (801) 220-4784
-----Original Message----- From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Cindy Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 1:28 PM To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Guidance needed
Julie gave an excellent, clear, detailed description of the procedure. The only thing I would add is that you should keep the book in rtf to upload. You can change it to Word to work on but should change back to rtf to upload. Bookshare will then convert to brf and daisy.
If you've downloaded a brf book to validate, then you need to keep it in brf format when you upload. It can't be converted to rtf. If you've taken one from the collection to improve the brf format, then when you upload it you need to put that in the comments section so Gustavo will know to replace just the brf copy that's in the collection--and put BSO in front of the title so he's know it's a replacement.
As Julie says, feel free to ask anything here.
Cindy
--- Julie Morales <mercy421@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
OK, assuming the book is in RTF format when it's received...did you register to become a volunteer? Did you get the instructions for validating books? That would be a start and give you some things to look for. In those instructions, the bare minimum is listed, but many of us do more than that. If you don't have those instructions, I don't have them, but maybe someone has a copy they can send you. If you're taking a book from the
Step One page, where you download books that need to be validated, you
check for completion to make sure the book is complete with no missing
pages. You check copyright info and make sure the book is not an e-book. There are some university materials that are submitted that throw people off because they look like e-books, but those are not to be rejected. <smile> You do a spell check and fix any errors you find, or, if you're so inclined, you can read the book completely through and correct errors as you come to them. Page breaks are a must. Bookshare will no longer accept books without page breaks, but usually, that's not something you have to worry about with an RTF file. I'm not sure if I've answered your question, but if not, definitely feel free to ask more. That's what this list is for and I'm sure someone will be glad to help. Take care. Julie Morales Children are fragile. Handle with prayer. --Unknown
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