[bksvol-discuss] Re: Downloading fair-rated books
- From: Cindy <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 19:12:21 -0700 (PDT)
Grace et al
I think Jake is going to do a more up-to-date one--or
is that the one you have? I thought I'd copy it and
replace the old list I have and when I finish with the
books I have I'll take some of those, too. I've
already asked for Camus' The Stranger, because I found
the book at the bookstore and have always wanted to
read it. I figure while I'm reading it I might as well
improve the one in the collection. Buyt Gustavo was
out of town when I asked and hasn't gotten to my old
piece of mail yet. sign I'll re-request soon.
Cindy
--- Silvara <silvara@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> Hi Jill:
>
> I completely agree with you. With today's
> improvement in scanning technology there should be
> no reason why fair books are being accepted. I
> never download fair books and if I really want to
> read a book that is fair I'd rather go to the
> library, get the book and scan it.
>
> I went on to Jake's useful links page and did a
> search for fair books.
> Here's the direct link. However, the adult rated
> books are not included here since I didn't log in to
> bookshare.
>
>
http://www.bookshare.org/web/BooksByAdvancedSearch.html?titlestring=&authorstring=&sort=4&language=en&quality=10&category%5B%5D=0&operation=submit&submit=Search
>
> ***
> Grace
>
> For scanning and validating tips
> check out
> http://www.jbrownell.com/bks/tl.asp
>
> For ideas of books to scan check out:
> the No Book Left Behind AKA
> Reject list
> http://www.jbrownell.com/bks/reject.asp
> Rescan List
> http://www.jbrownell.com/bks/rescan.asp
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jill O'Connell
> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 12:04 PM
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Downloading
> fair-rated books
>
>
> When Bookshare was first getting established, I
> can understand that they encouraged people to just
> send along their scanned books, many of which I'm
> sure the submitter had never intended to do anything
> with except scan for his own pleasure. However, the
> situation has changed significantly since then.
> Present day scanning equipment has improved so much
> that if the person doing the scanning with plans to
> submit can produce an excellent scan if he/she is
> willing to read the scan and make corrections
> accordingly. For this reason too we are seeing many
> more high quality books coming into the collection.
> However, we still see a few marked good or even
> fair. I personally think that the time has come that
> if a validator gets one of these books which
> obviously the submitter hasn't cared enough about to
> try to correct, the book should be rejected, not
> just released for someone else to struggle with. I
> have seen books on the step 1 page that the
> submitter rated as excellent which were not; this is
> why I made the suggestion some time ago that
> Bookshare's tool be used after the submission as
> well as after the validation to help catch this type
> of book. Sure, it wouldn't catch missing words,
> incorrect words, etc. but it should at least reflect
> a true accuracy rating in terms of spelling errors.
> Since I no longer am comfortable scanning new books
> which may be replaced by the N.Y. Times scanning, I
> am choosing from the fair books list which is on
> Rui's web site and rescanning books that I want to
> see in the collection with an excellent rating. I'm
> sure I miss things too, but at least the book will
> be enjoyable. It no longer makes sense to me for
> Bookshare to have to end up paying for two
> submissions and two validations to get an excellent
> copy when the book should have been rejected the
> first time around. I hope this comes across as
> positive criticism and not just negativity because I
> am truly highly supportive of Bookshare's endeavor.
> Jill
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Julie Morales
> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 7:20 PM
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Downloading fair-rated
> books
>
>
> Hi, Jill. Most of the time, I don't download
> them, either, unless it's one I really want to read,
> but even then, I have to want to read it really
> badly and have no other option for getting the book.
> Sometimes, I'm pleasantly surprised and it's really
> not that bad, but there have been a few times when
> books have slipped through the cracks and were rated
> better than they should have been. Those are the
> ones that really frustrate me. If something is rated
> fair and I choose to download it, anyway, at least I
> can be prepared for what I might have to deal with,
> but really, I can't blame any kind of automated tool
> for these books slipping through the cracks. Some of
> the ones I've read recently had half a line or more
> totally missing, but what was there was complete and
> did make sense, so no automated tool would have
> picked up on that. Take care.
> Julie Morales
> Life is a gift from God. What we do with it is
> our gift to Him.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jill O'Connell
> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 6:08 PM
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Protecting page
> numbers and chapter headings
>
>
> I can't help wondering how many of us even
> download books marked fair or even good; I know I
> don't.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Donna Smith
> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 10:32 AM
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Protecting
> page numbers and chapter headings
>
>
> Hi Evan and others following this thread.
>
>
>
> I apologize for being the one to open this
> particular can of worms. Every time we've had this
> discussion on the list, it has brought up these same
> issues. There is no official requirement for this
> from BookShare. The goal is still to get as many
> books as possible in the collection following the
> absolute guidelines regarding copyright laws as
> amended, and the concern of quality is next in line
> with the understanding that it is possible to rate
> books as fair, good or excellent.
>
>
>
> However, many of us who do the work have our
> own standards of quality for our submissions and so
> we've come up with tips for how to get the best
> quality possible. These standards, and they vary
> from volunteer to volunteer, are not required by
> anyone. It's just a self-imposed standard.
>
>
>
> Personally, when I submit a book, I try to
> do as much clean-up as possible so that the
> validator has an easy job. Actually, I try to
> submit the book in a form I'd not mind reading. I
> knew from previous discussions on this list that the
> BS software has little quirks that we can
> accommodate by creating a particular format, though
> I had forgotten what that was specifically. I
> choose to follow this pattern of blank line, page
> number, blank line, text, or, false header, blank
> line, chapter heading, blank line text, because it
> will produce a better end result for all formats,
> but there is no requirement to do so. Volunteers
> can do as much as they are comfortable with doing
> both as submitters and validators, and the addition
> to the collection is appreciated by all.
>
>
>
> Hope this helps to explain it all a bit.
> Keep on scanning and keep up the good work!
>
>
>
> Peace and Hope,
>
>
>
> Donna
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of Evan Reese
> Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 11:17 AM
> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Protecting
> page numbers and chapter headings
>
>
>
> Ok, now I'm more confused than ever. If I
> strip the headings manually, then why does the
> stripper need something to strip. If I don't strip
> them, then I need to make them consistent so the
> stripper can strip them correctly? But if I do
> strip them, then I need to put a fake one at the
> beginning of each chapter so the chapter heading
> doesn't get stripped? Do I have this all correct?
> Wouldn't it be a lot simpler just to not strip
> anything? Aren't we supposed - ideally anyhow - to
> be replicating the original book, in which there is
> in fact a heading at the top of each page, except on
> those which begin a chapter. This makes a lot of
> extra work and complexity and a reduction of quality
> for those who can't keep straight all the
> persnickety demands of the Bookshare software, or
> who don't have the time to go through and fix
> everything just right so that other readers can have
> a decent reading experience. I would say, just drop
> the whole stripping thing and make life simpler for
> everyone and then we won't have these quality
> problems.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Gerald Hovas
>
> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 4:18 PM
>
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Protecting
> page numbers and chapter headings
>
>
>
> Donna,
>
>
>
> 1.. Yes, put a blank line before and
> after the page number when the page number is in the
> header as well as a blank line at the bottom of the
> page. I'm not sure if the blank line is necessary
> between the page number and the text, but I can say
> that putting one after the header does work well.
> If you leave the blank lines at the top and bottom
> of the pages off, then some odd things will happen
> to the page numbers when the HTML file is created.
> The page numbers end up as part of a paragraph
> instead of on a separate line.
>
>
> Example of how the page should look...
>
>
>
> [Page Break]
>
>
>
> 95
>
>
>
> .
>
> .
>
> .
>
> text
>
> .
>
> .
>
> .
>
>
>
> [Page Break]
>
>
>
> 2.. Yes, put a blank line between the
> chapter heading and the first line of text. Again,
> I don't know that this is necessary, but it does
> work well, and some people have said that it is
> necessary.
>
>
> 3. Yes, you need to give the Stripper
> something to strip other than the chapter heading or
> the chapter heading will be stripped. The easiest
> thing to do when page numbers are normally at the
> top of pages except on pages where a chapter begins
> is to move the page number from the bottom of the
> page to the top. If page numbers are always at the
> bottom of the page, then place a false header above
> the chapter heading. Using the title works well,
> and it won't look as odd if the Stripper fails to
> strip it for some odd reason. It helps to strip all
> of the real headers manually since its easier to
> strip them yourself than to insure that they are
> consistent so that the Stripper will remove them
> all, but if you do leave them in, then just follow
> the pattern of the headers and put whatever header
> would normally appear on the top of that page above
> the chapter heading.
>
>
>
> Examples of how pages should look...
>
>
>
> [Page Break]
>
>
>
> 95
>
>
>
> Chapter Seven
>
>
>
> .
>
> .
>
> .
>
> text
>
> .
>
> .
>
> .
>
>
>
> [Page Break]
>
>
>
> [Page Break]
>
>
>
> The Firm
>
>
>
> Chapter Seven
>
>
>
> .
>
> .
>
> .
>
> text
>
> .
>
> .
>
> .
>
>
>
> 95
>
>
>
> [Page Break]
>
>
>
> Or if the page would normally contain the
> author's name instead of the title...
>
>
>
> [Page Break]
>
>
>
> John Grisham
>
>
>
> Chapter Seven
>
>
>
> .
>
> .
>
> .
>
> text
>
> .
>
> .
>
> .
>
>
>
> [Page Break]
>
>
>
> I can't say that these are the only ways
> to do it, but I've had excellent results with these
> approaches.
>
>
>
> HTH
>
>
>
> Gerald
>
>
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of Donna Smith
> Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 5:41 PM
> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Protecting page
> numbers and chapter headings
>
>
>
> Hi all.
>
>
>
> I hesitate to ask this question, but I
> can't find the answer on any of the official or
> unofficial sites giving tips to scanners.
>
>
>
> Did we ever determine absolutely what
> should be done to protect page numbers and chapter
> headings? What I want to know is:
>
>
>
> 1.. At the top of each page, do I need
> to put a blank line before and/or after the page
> number?
> 2.. For chapter numbers/titles that
> appear at the top of the page, do I put a blank line
> before and/or after it?
> 3.. Is it necessary to have something at
> the top of the page for the BookShare stripper to
> strip?
>
>
> I spend a good bit of time cleaning up
> each scan regarding page numbers, chapter headings
> and stripping out unwanted headers. I'm trying to
> do it in such a way that it will result in the best
> book in the finished product.
>
>
>
> I really, really hope that an answer has
> been found to this question and that I'm not opening
> up the can of worms we've had before about the
> different perceptions of what might work. <smile>
>
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> Peace and Hope,
>
>
>
> Donna
>
>
>
>
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>
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