[bksvol-discuss] Re: Downloading fair-rated books
- From: "Jake Brownell" <jabrown@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 19:51:02 -0500
Hi Grace,
Actually the link structure does not change whether you are logged in or
not. The system will make the call on which books to display based on the link
structure, and then whether you're logged in, and if you're logged in the
choice you have set for adult content.
HTH,
Jake
----- Original Message -----
From: Silvara
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 7:46 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Downloading fair-rated books
Hi Jill:
I completely agree with you. With today's improvement in scanning technology
there should be no reason why fair books are being accepted. I never download
fair books and if I really want to read a book that is fair I'd rather go to
the library, get the book and scan it.
I went on to Jake's useful links page and did a search for fair books.
Here's the direct link. However, the adult rated books are not included here
since I didn't log in to bookshare.
http://www.bookshare.org/web/BooksByAdvancedSearch.html?titlestring=&authorstring=&sort=4&language=en&quality=10&category%5B%5D=0&operation=submit&submit=Search
***
Grace
For scanning and validating tips
check out
http://www.jbrownell.com/bks/tl.asp
For ideas of books to scan check out:
the No Book Left Behind AKA
Reject list
http://www.jbrownell.com/bks/reject.asp
Rescan List
http://www.jbrownell.com/bks/rescan.asp
----- Original Message -----
From: Jill O'Connell
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 12:04 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Downloading fair-rated books
When Bookshare was first getting established, I can understand that they
encouraged people to just send along their scanned books, many of which I'm
sure the submitter had never intended to do anything with except scan for his
own pleasure. However, the situation has changed significantly since then.
Present day scanning equipment has improved so much that if the person doing
the scanning with plans to submit can produce an excellent scan if he/she is
willing to read the scan and make corrections accordingly. For this reason too
we are seeing many more high quality books coming into the collection. However,
we still see a few marked good or even fair. I personally think that the time
has come that if a validator gets one of these books which obviously the
submitter hasn't cared enough about to try to correct, the book should be
rejected, not just released for someone else to struggle with. I have seen
books on the step 1 page that the submitter rated as excellent which were not;
this is why I made the suggestion some time ago that Bookshare's tool be used
after the submission as well as after the validation to help catch this type of
book. Sure, it wouldn't catch missing words, incorrect words, etc. but it
should at least reflect a true accuracy rating in terms of spelling errors.
Since I no longer am comfortable scanning new books which may be replaced by
the N.Y. Times scanning, I am choosing from the fair books list which is on
Rui's web site and rescanning books that I want to see in the collection with
an excellent rating. I'm sure I miss things too, but at least the book will be
enjoyable. It no longer makes sense to me for Bookshare to have to end up
paying for two submissions and two validations to get an excellent copy when
the book should have been rejected the first time around. I hope this comes
across as positive criticism and not just negativity because I am truly highly
supportive of Bookshare's endeavor. Jill
----- Original Message -----
From: Julie Morales
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 7:20 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Downloading fair-rated books
Hi, Jill. Most of the time, I don't download them, either, unless it's
one I really want to read, but even then, I have to want to read it really
badly and have no other option for getting the book. Sometimes, I'm pleasantly
surprised and it's really not that bad, but there have been a few times when
books have slipped through the cracks and were rated better than they should
have been. Those are the ones that really frustrate me. If something is rated
fair and I choose to download it, anyway, at least I can be prepared for what I
might have to deal with, but really, I can't blame any kind of automated tool
for these books slipping through the cracks. Some of the ones I've read
recently had half a line or more totally missing, but what was there was
complete and did make sense, so no automated tool would have picked up on that.
Take care.
Julie Morales
Life is a gift from God. What we do with it is our gift to Him.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jill O'Connell
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 6:08 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Protecting page numbers and chapter
headings
I can't help wondering how many of us even download books marked fair
or even good; I know I don't.
----- Original Message -----
From: Donna Smith
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 10:32 AM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Protecting page numbers and chapter
headings
Hi Evan and others following this thread.
I apologize for being the one to open this particular can of worms.
Every time we've had this discussion on the list, it has brought up these same
issues. There is no official requirement for this from BookShare. The goal is
still to get as many books as possible in the collection following the absolute
guidelines regarding copyright laws as amended, and the concern of quality is
next in line with the understanding that it is possible to rate books as fair,
good or excellent.
However, many of us who do the work have our own standards of quality
for our submissions and so we've come up with tips for how to get the best
quality possible. These standards, and they vary from volunteer to volunteer,
are not required by anyone. It's just a self-imposed standard.
Personally, when I submit a book, I try to do as much clean-up as
possible so that the validator has an easy job. Actually, I try to submit the
book in a form I'd not mind reading. I knew from previous discussions on this
list that the BS software has little quirks that we can accommodate by creating
a particular format, though I had forgotten what that was specifically. I
choose to follow this pattern of blank line, page number, blank line, text, or,
false header, blank line, chapter heading, blank line text, because it will
produce a better end result for all formats, but there is no requirement to do
so. Volunteers can do as much as they are comfortable with doing both as
submitters and validators, and the addition to the collection is appreciated by
all.
Hope this helps to explain it all a bit. Keep on scanning and keep
up the good work!
Peace and Hope,
Donna
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Evan Reese
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 11:17 AM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Protecting page numbers and chapter
headings
Ok, now I'm more confused than ever. If I strip the headings
manually, then why does the stripper need something to strip. If I don't strip
them, then I need to make them consistent so the stripper can strip them
correctly? But if I do strip them, then I need to put a fake one at the
beginning of each chapter so the chapter heading doesn't get stripped? Do I
have this all correct? Wouldn't it be a lot simpler just to not strip
anything? Aren't we supposed - ideally anyhow - to be replicating the original
book, in which there is in fact a heading at the top of each page, except on
those which begin a chapter. This makes a lot of extra work and complexity and
a reduction of quality for those who can't keep straight all the persnickety
demands of the Bookshare software, or who don't have the time to go through and
fix everything just right so that other readers can have a decent reading
experience. I would say, just drop the whole stripping thing and make life
simpler for everyone and then we won't have these quality problems.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gerald Hovas
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 4:18 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Protecting page numbers and chapter
headings
Donna,
1.. Yes, put a blank line before and after the page number when
the page number is in the header as well as a blank line at the bottom of the
page. I'm not sure if the blank line is necessary between the page number and
the text, but I can say that putting one after the header does work well. If
you leave the blank lines at the top and bottom of the pages off, then some odd
things will happen to the page numbers when the HTML file is created. The page
numbers end up as part of a paragraph instead of on a separate line.
Example of how the page should look...
[Page Break]
95
.
.
.
text
.
.
.
[Page Break]
2.. Yes, put a blank line between the chapter heading and the
first line of text. Again, I don't know that this is necessary, but it does
work well, and some people have said that it is necessary.
3. Yes, you need to give the Stripper something to strip other than
the chapter heading or the chapter heading will be stripped. The easiest thing
to do when page numbers are normally at the top of pages except on pages where
a chapter begins is to move the page number from the bottom of the page to the
top. If page numbers are always at the bottom of the page, then place a false
header above the chapter heading. Using the title works well, and it won't
look as odd if the Stripper fails to strip it for some odd reason. It helps to
strip all of the real headers manually since its easier to strip them yourself
than to insure that they are consistent so that the Stripper will remove them
all, but if you do leave them in, then just follow the pattern of the headers
and put whatever header would normally appear on the top of that page above the
chapter heading.
Examples of how pages should look...
[Page Break]
95
Chapter Seven
.
.
.
text
.
.
.
[Page Break]
[Page Break]
The Firm
Chapter Seven
.
.
.
text
.
.
.
95
[Page Break]
Or if the page would normally contain the author's name instead of
the title...
[Page Break]
John Grisham
Chapter Seven
.
.
.
text
.
.
.
[Page Break]
I can't say that these are the only ways to do it, but I've had
excellent results with these approaches.
HTH
Gerald
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Donna Smith
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 5:41 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Protecting page numbers and chapter
headings
Hi all.
I hesitate to ask this question, but I can't find the answer on any
of the official or unofficial sites giving tips to scanners.
Did we ever determine absolutely what should be done to protect
page numbers and chapter headings? What I want to know is:
1.. At the top of each page, do I need to put a blank line before
and/or after the page number?
2.. For chapter numbers/titles that appear at the top of the
page, do I put a blank line before and/or after it?
3.. Is it necessary to have something at the top of the page for
the BookShare stripper to strip?
I spend a good bit of time cleaning up each scan regarding page
numbers, chapter headings and stripping out unwanted headers. I'm trying to do
it in such a way that it will result in the best book in the finished product.
I really, really hope that an answer has been found to this
question and that I'm not opening up the can of worms we've had before about
the different perceptions of what might work. <smile>
Thanks.
Peace and Hope,
Donna
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