atw: Re: Greek, etc [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
- From: "MATILDA REICH" <MATILDA.REICH@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 09 May 2007 11:54:32 +1000
Howard,
A good point on index, that would be useful.
I picked up the book from a remaindered book pile for $5.
I suppose I could search the internet for a similar book on the French
and German origins. These days there's no subject too obscure for the
internet, which never ceases to amaze me.
On the subject of indices, does anyone know of a software tool index
compiler, one that works well? I suppose I could google "index
compiler".
Mat
>>> Howard.Silcock@xxxxxxxxxxx 9/05/07 11:32:38 am >>>
Matilda said:
> I have a book called "Eureka! - A dictionary of Latin and Greek
Elements in English Words" by Mary Byrne.
Yes, it's a great book - I've never met anyone else who knew of it till
now. The one big flaw in the book, in my opinion, is that it doesn't
have an index. Though the entries are arranged alphabetically, the
sorting is by the Greek or Latin root (which is also the heading of the
entry) - and I think it'd be really useful to have an index of all the
words using that root that are listed as examples.
I even started out a couple of times to create one myself, but each
time found it too laborious to persist with.
Sorry, I don't know of any books with the French and German origins.
But let me know if you do hear of one.
Howard
"MATILDA REICH" <MATILDA.REICH@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent by: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
09/05/2007 10:12 AM Please respond to
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atw: Re: Greek, etc Topic
TRIM File Ref
Indeed Michelle,
It is a fascinating subject. I have a book called "Eureka! - A
dictionary of Latin and Greek Elements in English Words" by Mary Byrne.
Looks like I need one for French and German origins as well to get the
full picture. Can anyone recommend a title?
Matilda
PS - I think Bob meant "waffle" but "woofle" is cuter.
Another subject that's interesting is the use of non-words, or made up
words,which are passed off as real words. Talk about subverting the
English language.
>>> Michelle.Hallett@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 8/05/07 8:09:22 am >>>
Why not just opt for clear writing regardless of the origin of the
individual words?
Unsure if your writing is clear? Use a reviewer, preferably from your
target audience.
Even technical writing is not a science and there are no hard and fast
rules, only guidelines. I have seen clear, easily understood text with
many Latin and Greek-derived words and poorly worded text where most of
the words were Germanic in origin.
Michelle
P.S. Case in point, Bob's use of the non-existent word 'woofle' in the
email below is clearly understood from context and it's similarity to
the correct (albeit colloquial) word 'waffle'. (At least, I think it's
'waffle', I haven't seen it written that often. Is it Germanic, Greek or
Swahili? Maybe it's French, le waffle, anyone?)
P.P.S. I love studying and discussing the history of language and
derivation of words. But when I write I like to use all the language and
enjoy finding the right word, regardless of derivation, which makes the
meaning of the text clear.
From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bob Trussler
Sent: Monday, 7 May 2007 10:18 PM
To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: atw: Re: Greek, etc
James,
I like it, but I avoid abbreviated Latin.
Abbreviations must be used carefully and Latin abbreviations are just
silly, so avoid them."
Why use eg when for example works well, or even better?
Why use ie and run the risk of confusion with eg when 'that is' says it
unambiguously?
Why use etc. when and so on is better?
Why use et al when and others is simpler?
Just something I always put in my writing standards, and woofle on
about when given the opportunity.
Thanks for the opportunity.
Bob T
On 5/7/07, James Hunt <jameshunt@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On 07 May 2007, at 1:02 PM, Christine Kent wrote:
Basic rule is speak English not Latin (or Greek, or Latin via French).
English words tend to be simple single syllable words that everyone
understands; Latin and Greek have many syllables and are designed to
differentiate between the working classes (the Celts etc) and the upper
classes (the invading Romans, Normans etc. )
There are many polysyllabic words of Latin and Greek origin in English.
They are often technically precise and appropriate in context. However,
the idea that all Greek-derived words are polysyllabic monstrosities
designed to obfuscate or serve some political purpose is simply not
true, and dropping Greek-derived words from English texts, or limiting
their use, is not a practical idea. I give you a list of short, common,
Greek words in English - from allergy to horoscope (which starts with a
rough-breathing omega):
allergy, amoral, anaesthetic, apathy, arctic, arithmetic, asthma,
abyss, agate, archangel, angle, anchorage, aerobics, athlete, academy,
acme [features in RoadRunner cartoons, along with Ajax, the Greek hero],
acoustic, guitar [through Spanish], alphabet, amygdala [heard on a
science program on television - Greek there too - recently], anorexia
[but obesity is Latin], .....
...organ, police, programmer, sarcasm, philosophy, telephone, system,
chaos, chiropractor, psychology, idea, cinema, drama, climax, coma,
dyspepsia, zone, catastrophe, nectar, hydrogen, electric,.....
...phenomena, pedophile [in newspapers a lot, a few years ago],
rhododendron, rheumatism, Mesopotamia [had a revival in the political
press recently], centre, calypso, idiot [very, very common in popular
discourse!], theory, paradox, geography, autopsy [amazingly frequent on
television], asylum...
The modern working classes use a lot of these words. If you refer to an
acoustic guitar, or an electric guitar, or asylum seekers, or complain
that someone doesn't know their alphabet, or go to water the
rhododendrons, or mention your mobile phone, you are using Greek. It's
everywhere.
The words may well have originated in a literate class and filtered
down the social scale in some past era, but it would be hard for us to
do without these words today. I once came across a claim by a Greek
philologist that there are at least 40,000 Greek loan words in English.
I have no way of checking this, but considering the amount of Greek we
use in everyday speech and writing, I would not be surprised if the
claim were true.
In the final analysis [yes, that's Greek too], the old rule applies:
know your audience, and use words that the audience will understand. It
doesn't matter where the words came from. Any attempt to limit your text
to words derived from only one of the historic strands of English is a
pointless exercise. It's all English now, whether it came from
Anglo-Saxon, Latin, Greek, Norman French, Dutch, Hindi, Chinese...
JH
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