[C] [Wittrs] Digest Number 100

  • From: WittrsAMR@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • To: WittrsAMR@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: 9 Jan 2010 10:48:21 -0000

Title: WittrsAMR

Messages In This Digest (6 Messages)

1.1.
Consciousness and Quantum Mechanics From: Joseph Polanik
1.2.
Re: Consciousness and Quantum Mechanics From: Cayuse
1.3.
Consciousness and Quantum Mechanics From: Joseph Polanik
1.4.
Re: Consciousness and Quantum Mechanics From: Cayuse
2a.
sense as known From: void
2b.
sense as known From: Rajasekhar Goteti

Messages

1.1.

Consciousness and Quantum Mechanics

Posted by: "Joseph Polanik" wittrsamr@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Fri Jan 8, 2010 3:51 am (PST)



Cayuse wrote:

>Joseph Polanik wrote:

>>Cayuse wrote:

>>>I was wondering what role there would be left for consciousness in
>>>QT given this approach.

>>explaining the measurement problem.

>There is no longer a measurement problem -- every interaction is
>effectively a measurement.
>http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/0707/0707.2832v1.pdf

Zurek is talking about environmental 'monitoring' --- the way
decoherence is used to explain the emergence of an apparently classical
world (for large enough objects anyway).

how exactly, does Zurek establish that monitoring is identical to
measuring?

Joe

--

Nothing Unreal is Self-Aware

@^@~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~@^@
http://what-am-i.net
@^@~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~@^@

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1.2.

Re: Consciousness and Quantum Mechanics

Posted by: "Cayuse" wittrsamr@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Fri Jan 8, 2010 8:32 am (PST)



Joseph Polanik wrote:
> Cayuse wrote:
>> http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/0707/0707.2832v1.pdf
>
> Zurek is talking about environmental 'monitoring' --- the way
> decoherence is used to explain the emergence of an apparently
> classical world (for large enough objects anyway).
>
> how exactly, does Zurek establish that monitoring is identical to
> measuring?

Zurek shows how classical reality may emerge entirely within
the formalism of QT. What need is there now to rope-in
consciousness as the agent of state vector reduction?

==========================================

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1.3.

Consciousness and Quantum Mechanics

Posted by: "Joseph Polanik" wittrsamr@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Fri Jan 8, 2010 9:12 am (PST)



Cayuse wrote:

>Joseph Polanik wrote:

>>Zurek is talking about environmental 'monitoring' --- the way
>>decoherence is used to explain the emergence of an apparently
>>classical world (for large enough objects anyway).

>>how exactly, does Zurek establish that monitoring is identical to
>>measuring?

>Zurek shows how classical reality may emerge entirely within the
>formalism of QT.

yes. that's what decoherence theory is good for.

>What need is there now to rope-in consciousness as the agent of state
>vector reduction?

the measurement problem is still unresolved.

to a physicist trying to explain measurement of quantum spin of single
particles, the fact that decoherence theory can explain why
Schrodinger's cat is always either alive or dead (but never both) is of
no use. the formalism still says that the particle is in a superposition
of up/down in between measurements.

Joe

--

Nothing Unreal is Self-Aware

@^@~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~@^@
http://what-am-i.net
@^@~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~@^@

==========================================

Need Something? Check here: http://ludwig.squarespace.com/wittrslinks/

1.4.

Re: Consciousness and Quantum Mechanics

Posted by: "Cayuse" wittrsamr@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Fri Jan 8, 2010 11:08 am (PST)



Joseph Polanik wrote:
> Cayuse wrote:
>> What need is there now to rope-in consciousness as the
>> agent of state vector reduction?
>
> the measurement problem is still unresolved.
>
> to a physicist trying to explain measurement of quantum spin of
> single particles, the fact that decoherence theory can explain why
> Schrodinger's cat is always either alive or dead (but never both)
> is of no use. the formalism still says that the particle is in a
> superposition of up/down in between measurements.

The particle is in a superposition of states between its interactions
with other particles. It's still not clear to me what need there is now
to rope-in consciousness as the agent of state vector reduction.
Can you clarify?

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2a.

sense as known

Posted by: "void" rgoteti@xxxxxxxxx   rgoteti

Fri Jan 8, 2010 5:13 am (PST)



Columbia Encyclopedia: sense
Top
Home > Library > Miscellaneous > Columbia Encyclopedia
sense, faculty by which external or internal stimuli are conveyed to the brain centers, where they are registered as sensations. Sensory reception occurs in higher animals through a process known as transduction, in which stimuli are converted into nerve impulses and relayed to the brain. The four commonly known special senses (sight, hearing, smell, and taste) are concerned with the outer world, and external stimuli are received and conducted by sensory receptors concentrated in the eye, ear, olfactory organ, and the taste buds. The so-called somatic senses respond to both external and internal stimuli. Although most of the somatic receptors are located in the skin (conveying the external sensations of touch, heat, cold, pressure, and pain), others are located in internal organs (e.g., the heart and the stomach). Somatic sensations such as hunger, thirst, and fatigue are thought to originate in specific areas of the nervous system. The sense of balance, or equilibrium, is related to the flow of endolymph, a fluid found in the inner ear.

All words like mind,consciousness,self,ego, come under this tree i,e sense.What is beyond sense none knows.

thank you
sekhar

2b.

sense as known

Posted by: "Rajasekhar Goteti" rgoteti@xxxxxxxxx   rgoteti

Fri Jan 8, 2010 5:34 am (PST)



Whatever it is that makes what would otherwise be mere sounds and inscriptions into instruments of communication and understanding. The philosophical problem is to demystify this power, and to relate it to what we know of ourselves and the world. Contributions to this study include the theory of speech acts, and the investigation of communication and the relationship between words and ideas, and words and the world. For particular problems see content, ideas,indeterminacy of translation, inscrutability of reference, language, predication, reference, rule-following, semantics, translation, and the topics referred to under headings associated with logic. The loss of confidence in determinate meaning (‘every decoding is another encoding’) is an element common both to postmodernist uncertainties in the theory of criticism, and to the analytic tradition that follows writers such as Quine.
Philosophy Dictionary: meaning

sekhar

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