Hi Steve. I don't know if you gave them this kind of argument, but this
is the way I see things.
Companies are spending a certain amount of Time and money to add new
features to their products. They don't know if people will like these
new features, they just do it without knowing what will be Their clients
response. So, why not take 10% of this time and money and spend it on
new features that will only but surely be loved by a certain percentage
of their users. Maybe not 10%, maybe just 1% but it's still something.
Best,
JPR
http://www.jprykiel.com
https://www.youtube.com/c/jprykiel
http://soundcloud.com/ryksounet
https://www.youtube.com/c/jprykielhttp://facebook.com/jeanphilipperykiel
Le 06/05/2022 à 14:39, Steve Spamer a écrit :
Thanks JP.
Well, I’ve had some more dialog with Celemony, so I’m just awaiting their reply. It might be an option, but we’ll see how it goes for now. Funnily enough, they are aware of this conversation we’re having on list. I know they are aware of our frustrations, which we often have across the board when the subject of accessibility is the subject. We of course have a huge frustration with this problem, but it’s not directed specifically at them, it’s a wider issue that we’re all too aware of, they just happen to be the ones in the firing line at the moment.
I have no doubt that they are under a lot of pressure and they have very limited resources, so their hands maybe tied, but I hope that at least we are able to convince them to keep the status quo.
Best steve.
Samplitude Access-The Gateway To Pro Recording With Samplitude For the Visually Impaired: www.samplitudeaccess.org.uk <http://www.samplitudeaccess.org.uk>
Follow me on Twitter:
stevesax123
Contact me:
Mobile:
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*From:*vipaudioaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <vipaudioaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> *On Behalf Of *Jean-philippe Rykiel
*Sent:* 06 May 2022 12:36
*To:* vipaudioaccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject:* [vipaudioaccess] Re: SV: Re: Melodyne update news, it's not good.
Hey Steve,
I did that two days ago, and reiterated this morning On their Facebook page. The reply on Facebook was, dear JPR, your support ticket is with us, thanks for letting us know.
If your video is available, I could also post it there if you think that's necessary. It could reach more people you know...
Cheers,
JPR
http://www.jprykiel.com
https://www.youtube.com/c/jprykiel
http://soundcloud.com/ryksounet
https://www.youtube.com/c/jprykielhttp://facebook.com/jeanphilipperykiel ;
<https://www.youtube.com/c/jprykielhttp:/facebook.com/jeanphilipperykiel>
Le 06/05/2022 à 12:54, Steve Spamer a écrit :
Hi JP.
Yes, absolutely, this is what users need to do to at least make
Celemony aware that we’re not happy. So, please please please, if
you can take a couple of minutes out of your day to send Celemony
a quick message whith concerns over this move to inaccessibility,
then you can write to:
support@xxxxxxxxxxxx
BTW JP. Regarding your idea of show-casing my solution, well I’ve
already done that, as I have reported 1 bug and requested a
feature. I found a bug in ARA and asked them to add the ability to
play a selection via a keystroke. Ironically, they confirmed the
bug, fixed it and introduced the feature in this latest update. To
do that, I used my solution and sent them a video. On the back of
that video, they actually gave me an NFR copy of Melodyne Studio,
because they were very impressed with how it worked. Again, the
irony is, I can’t use this version they’ve released lol!
Anyway, just to reiterate, please folks, write to them, this is
the only way they will accept that this community is worth
accommodating for.
Best steve.
Samplitude Access-The Gateway To Pro Recording With Samplitude For
the Visually Impaired: www.samplitudeaccess.org.uk
<http://www.samplitudeaccess.org.uk>
Follow me on Twitter:
stevesax123
Contact me:
Mobile:
+44 (0)7733373714
E-Mail:
stevespamer68@xxxxxxxxx
*From:*vipaudioaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<vipaudioaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<mailto:vipaudioaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> *On Behalf Of
*Jean-philippe Rykiel
*Sent:* 06 May 2022 07:44
*To:* vipaudioaccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject:* [vipaudioaccess] Re: SV: Re: Melodyne update news, it's
not good.
Hi Brian,
this is exactly what I did two days ago, still waiting for their
reply.
Steve, one thing you could do maybe, is demo what your script is
able to do in a video, Along with a short history of Melodyne's
accessibility, And ending with saying, all right, this is what we
were able to do until last version came out and broke it all, and
I will post it to Celemony's Facebook page. That might tickle them
a bit I think.
http://www.jprykiel.com
https://www.youtube.com/c/jprykiel
http://soundcloud.com/ryksounet
https://www.youtube.com/c/jprykielhttp://facebook.com/jeanphilipperykiel ;
<https://www.youtube.com/c/jprykielhttp:/facebook.com/jeanphilipperykiel>
Le 05/05/2022 à 23:48, Brian hovmand Olesen (brian) a écrit :
Hi,
I think all of us, who actually board the program should
contact Celemony, and kindly ask them to revert to the former
platform, or do something else, so we visually impaired users
still can use it properly.
Luckily not many significant enhancements has been made to the
newly released 5.2 that we can’t live without, but in the
future this is going to be a serious problem.
Best regards
Brian
*Fra:* vipaudioaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <> *På vegne af
*ptorpey00@xxxxxxxxx
*Sendt:* 5. maj 2022 22:46
*Til:* vipaudioaccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Emne:* [vipaudioaccess] Re: Melodyne update news, it's not good.
The sad thing is that such a tool as SKIA even exists. If
SKIA had built in accessibility in the first place, folks who
built their tools on this platform would then be accessible.
Since this is a free, open source tool, it isn’t surprising
that developers want to use it. On the other hand, being a
Google sponsored and managed project it is shameful that
Google doesn’t either make this accessible or clearly indicate
that to developers as a major caveat.
--Pete
*From:*vipaudioaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<vipaudioaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<mailto:vipaudioaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> *On Behalf Of
*Steve Spamer
*Sent:* Thursday, May 5, 2022 2:35 PM
*To:* vipaudioaccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject:* [vipaudioaccess] Re: Melodyne update news, it's not
good.
Phil, they are now using Skia to draw everything on screen.
That graphics engine has no direct option for accessibility by
default, but it apparently has a framework built in that
Flutter can utilise. So, currently, what Skia draws, Skia
doesn’t care about, there is no way to tell Skia what is or
isn’t text, it all just appears as non readable pictures really.
I have no idea how Skia and Flutter differ, but after having
dialog with Vic Tsaran, he’s assured us that accessibility can
be added if they are willing to add the necessary code with
Flutter. Now whether or not they are willing to do this is the
million dollar question.
The dev at Celemony I’ve been having communication with has
said the same old stuff we’ve heard a thousand times before,
in as much as they’re a small team and they have little
resources to address problems like this. He did however, say
that he wants to evaluate whether or not there is “any low
hanging fruit” they can grab…which I take to mean, is there
any money to be made out of doing this.
Anyway, there are a handful of us who are trying our best to
urge Celemony to go down this route…and there is the knowledge
in this group to give Celemony the information to achieve it,
so we’ll see if we get any joy.
Best steve.
Samplitude Access-The Gateway To Pro Recording With Samplitude
For the Visually Impaired: www.samplitudeaccess.org.uk
<http://www.samplitudeaccess.org.uk>
Follow me on Twitter:
stevesax123
Contact me:
Mobile:
+44 (0)7733373714
E-Mail:
stevespamer68@xxxxxxxxx
*From:*vipaudioaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<vipaudioaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> *On Behalf Of *Phil Muir
*Sent:* 05 May 2022 20:26
*To:* vipaudioaccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject:* [vipaudioaccess] Re: Melodyne update news, it's not
good.
I have been following this thread. I wonder what Celemony are
using to author their plug-ins? For example, if they are
written in Juce or QT then graphics libraries shouldn’t come
into play as they can use the accessibility UI to help us. As
you know, Skia is used on Android, Chrome etc. This isn’t an
issue as Android has accessibility API’s as indeed does Chrome.
*From:*vipaudioaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<vipaudioaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> *On Behalf Of *Steve Spamer
*Sent:* 05 May 2022 10:17
*To:* vipaudioaccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject:* [vipaudioaccess] Re: Melodyne update news, it's not
good.
I’m guessing that some companies are doing this because it’s
the easiest way for cross platform compatibility, e.g. so
their products work on Windows and IOS. Like I said, my
thoughts are they’re doing this to support the new M1 silicon
chipset from Apple.
I have to say, after reading a bit more about skia, it really
is a super lazy/backwards step move on Celemony’s part. Our
only hope is that there is another tool that works in
conjunction with Skia to give them the tools to add some
accessibility, as Skia doesn’t have anything to offer at all!
It’s just a fact of life that we get the shitty end of the
stick more times then not, they see our community as
disposable, yet they will jump through hoops to provide eye
candy for the sighted user. There maybe some dialog to have
with Celemony, but we’ll have to see how that goes, I’m not
too positive about it, but I think we have to try. My heart
wants to do everything to make these people take
responsibility, but my head says it won’t achieve anything,
only calm/positive dialog really get’s anywhere.
Best steve.
Samplitude Access-The Gateway To Pro Recording With Samplitude
For the Visually Impaired: www.samplitudeaccess.org.uk
<http://www.samplitudeaccess.org.uk>
Follow me on Twitter:
stevesax123
Contact me:
Mobile:
+44 (0)7733373714
E-Mail:
stevespamer68@xxxxxxxxx
*From:*vipaudioaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<vipaudioaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> *On Behalf Of
*il@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Sent:* 05 May 2022 08:02
*To:* vipaudioaccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject:* [vipaudioaccess] Re: Melodyne update news, it's not
good.
Indeed, if I remember right, it’s why Microsoft and Apple
pursued built in access. But hey, what can us VIs do?
Ian
*From:*vipaudioaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<vipaudioaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> *On Behalf Of
*Jean-Philippe Rykiel
*Sent:* 05 May 2022 07:49
*To:* vipaudioaccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject:* [vipaudioaccess] Re: Melodyne update news, it's not
good.
I hear you Ian, but you know, I’ve always wondered why some
companies care about accessibility and some don’t. It doesn’t
seem to be a money problem at all in fact, but more an
individual sensitivity matter. Who knows if someone at the top
of the pyramid at native instruments ableton or modartt does
not have a close friend or member of his family who is blind.
I really wonder.
Cheers,
JPR
http://www.jprykiel.com
http://soundcloud.com/ryksounet
https://www.youtube.com/c/jprykiel
Http://www.facebook.com/jprykiel
<Http://www.facebook.com/jprykiel>
Le 5 mai 2022 à 08:36, il@xxxxxxxxxxxxx a écrit :
Hi JP
Kind of interesting, but I think what it does is
high-light the problem. If we tried fighting a battle in
the UK, we would probably be confounded by the fact many
of these companies are American. We fight it in the
States, other parts of the World would be left behind.
The route of the problem is that people studying software
development at University aren't being made to face
there's a wider World out there that includes people with
access issues. There needs to be a fundamental change in
how software development is taught. If access was
included at the beginning of many of these programs we try
and use I'm sure the World would be a more equal place... 😊
Best
Ian
-----Original Message-----
From: vipaudioaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<vipaudioaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of
Jean-philippe Rykiel
Sent: 05 May 2022 06:46
To: vipaudioaccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [vipaudioaccess] Re: Melodyne update news, it's
not good.
Hey guys,
there is this website I receive newsletter from every once
in a while.
No idea if it could help at all but here is the link.
http://lflegal.com/2015/08/legal-update-summer15/
Forgive me if it's irrelevant.
Cheers,
JPR
http://www.jprykiel.com
https://www.youtube.com/c/jprykiel
http://soundcloud.com/ryksounet
https://www.youtube.com/c/jprykielhttp://facebook.com/jeanphilipperykiel
<https://www.youtube.com/c/jprykielhttp:/facebook.com/jeanphilipperykiel>
Le 05/05/2022 à 03:25, James Malone a écrit :
Hey Steve, is this update automatic? Ian, can't
remember how many times I went down this road. I even
sent spectra sonics to the better business bureau, and
they told me that because of the lack of interest in
regards to us controlling the market they weren't
going to make allowances for us. They even ask me to
remove them from the list.
I said no.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: vipaudioaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<vipaudioaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of
Steve Spamer
Sent: Wednesday, May 4, 2022 12:17 PM
To: vipaudioaccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [vipaudioaccess] Re: Melodyne update news,
it's not good.
Hey Ian, I totally feel the pain as well!
I've had this with Spectrasonics before. They just
decide to change their graphics engine with no
consultation on the affects it has on their user base.
It's almost as if they're happy to take your money,
but then are quite happy to take away the product you
paid for!
All of this is a thankless task and it does make you
question why you
do it, but while what I do empowers other VIP's, then
I guess I'll try
my best to keep things going, but I do agree, there
has to be a
breaking point...and the trouble is, this seems to be
happening more
and more with the same old excuses that budgets don't
stretch to
accessibility! It's as if we take 2 steps forward and
then 3 steps
back!!! 😒😖
Best Steve.
-----Original Message-----
From: vipaudioaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<vipaudioaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of
il@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: 04 May 2022 18:07
To: vipaudioaccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [vipaudioaccess] Re: Melodyne update news,
it's not good.
Hi Steve
It makes me so mad, all that work you've put in wiped
out in a moment. Not wanting to sound overly dramatic
about this, but, enough is enough. The lack of access
to these 2 bit programs is discriminatory. Enough
noise has been made about access in the last 5 years,
they surely can't say they don't know anything about
it. We're getting to the stage where we need to make
an example of one of these software providers and sue
their fucking arses... Really, does anyone out there
have a lawyer friend? Would they be interested in
taking this on?
If not sue them, then try and get people to boycott them.
OK, that's out my system.
All the best
Ian
-----Original Message-----
From: vipaudioaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<vipaudioaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of
Steve Spamer
Sent: 04 May 2022 15:07
To: vipaudioaccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [vipaudioaccess] Re: Melodyne update news,
it's not good.
Hi Floyd.
Oh, gotcha, yes that's the plan. Scripts will be done
by the end of today , so it's just tidying up the
documentation and making videos. I do think there will
be a few different videos, as I want to explain each
concept separately, e.g. navigation, selecting blobs,
splitting blobs , removing separations etc. Also, as
the scripts support the stand alone, ARA and plugin
flavours of Melodyne, along with each version,
Essential, Assistant, Editor and Studio, there are
some things you can do in 1, but not another, plus the
plugin version has a couple of slight differences, due
to what you need to do after a transfer.
Best Steve.
-----Original Message-----
From: vipaudioaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<vipaudioaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of
floyd white
Sent: 04 May 2022 13:13
To: vipaudioaccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [vipaudioaccess] Re: Melodyne update news,
it's not good.
Hi Steve,
Yup, I got that.
My question is, do you plan to put your scripts up
with an 'how to'
video for the Samplitude versions we already have?
I'm still happily using version 5 here.
Perhaps with a charge like Vallahalla?
Thanks,
Floyd...
On 5/4/22, Steve Spamer <stevespamer68@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi Floyd.
It's only this latest Melodyne update, which is
supposed to be a
minor update BTW that now shows no text on screen
for a screen
reader, the previous version is still OK in that
regard. So, you can
still use this build in any up to date DAW like
Samplitude.
I'm communicating with others to see if there are
any avenues to
investigate to see if we can get Celemony to at
least make it how it
was prior to this update. I can't see them doing
anything major, but
there maybe possibilities that they might
consider. They've moved to
a new graphics platform called Skia...and if there
are options to add
accessibility using this platform, there might be
some hope moving forward.
BTW, the more I read about changes companies are
making in regards to
what UI platform they use, the more Apple M1
silicon chips crop up.
Spectrasonics have done it...and I know they did
it for this reason,
now it looks like Celemony have also done it. So,
it looks like we're
losing accessibility, because of Apple changes 😖.
Best Steve.
-----Original Message-----
From: vipaudioaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<vipaudioaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of
floyd white
Sent: 04 May 2022 03:18
To: vipaudioaccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [vipaudioaccess] Re: Melodyne update
news, it's not good.
Bummer Steve,
This is pretty much what happened with Sonar and
CakeTalking.
Do you plan to put up the scripts with a video
perhaps for we that
have older versions like with Samplitude 5 or 6?
By the way, Google, though it professes to be the
cat's meow for
accessibility has lots and lots of issues in a
number of their products.
Thanks for everything you do,
Floyd...
On 5/3/22, Steve Spamer <stevespamer68@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Hi.
I'm passing on the information I have
regarding Melodyne's latest update.
My
initial thoughts were correct and Celemony
have moved to a different
graphics library, hence why Jaws can no longer
see any text on
screen at all. I'm not sure if this also has
an impact on other
solutions for Melodyne, but it's quite clear
that we're at the end
of the road with this product, unless Jaws
developers can address
it, or the graphics library in question can be
worked on with accessibility in mind.
Celemony tell me that the V5.1.1.003 version
will be available to
anyone who requests it from them, but it won't
be available via
their website. This is the last build that
text can be seen on
screen. The latest build
(V5.2.0.006) breaks the ability to read text
and they have no plans
to rectify this, as they are now sticking with
this new library,
which is called Skia.
They did say they would be willing to update
the version of Skia
they use, if any work with accessibility is
done, as it's open
source, so is available to people to work
with. Apparently, Skia is
backed by Google, so I would have thought that
accessibility should
be part of it's mandate to deliver that
accessibility, but this sort
of stuff is outside of my knowledge and I have
no contacts who know
about this sort of thing available at the moment.
I will try to contact dev's at FS or whatever
they're called now,
but again, I have no direct contacts there, so
I would have thought
it's going to be difficult to raise this
problem with the people who
need to know. If anyone thinks they have
something to offer with
making Skia support screen readers, or if
someone has a contact at
FS I can write to, then please get in touch:
Stevespamer68@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:Stevespamer68@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:Stevespamer68@xxxxxxxxx>>
Best steve.
Samplitude Access-The Gateway To Pro Recording
With Samplitude For
the Visually Impaired:
<http://www.samplitudeaccess.org.uk>
www.samplitudeaccess.org.uk
<http://www.samplitudeaccess.org.uk>
Follow me on Twitter:
stevesax123
Contact me:
Mobile:
+44 (0)7733373714
E-Mail:
stevespamer68@xxxxxxxxx
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