(VICT) learning by watching was Re: Re: Retrieve
- From: "kitty hevener" <khevener@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <vi-clicker-trainers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 09:03:30 -0800
Hi Ann, I do think dogs learn by watching either other dogs or people. Our
dog scout troop was playing a game where the object was to grab toy ducks
from a tub of water and transfer them to an empty bucket across the room.
To make life more interesting, there were two ducks that were in some way
(don't remember) different from the other ducks. These ducks were to be
left in the tub of water. I had no earthly idea how to communicate this to
sunstar and we were first. She was so interested that she fell asleep. We
moved away but sat where she could see what was happening. After all other
dogs had completed activity, I tried with her again. I didn't really give a
cue since I had not figured out one. But, she took all ducks out of the tub
except the ones that were supposed to be left alone. But, instead of taking
them across to the empty bucket, she lined them up on the floor and then put
them back in the tub of water. Go figure!! Once they were all in the
water, she took them all out again leaving the untouchable ones alone. She
kept doing this version of the game till we took the ducks away smile!!
Based on what she did, I think she did pick up by learning. But, I have no
cluse as to why she did not finish the task smile!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ann Edie" <annedie@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <vi-clicker-trainers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 8:41 AM
Subject: (VICT) Re: Retrieve
Hi, Dolores,
Thanks for jumping in with ideas on training a retrieve. I was going to ask
you for your suggestions.
The idea of reinforcing the bringing of objects by exchanging them for
reinforcers of differing values is a great one. However, I think the issue
that some of our members are facing is not that the dogs are bringing
objects that they don't want touched, but that the dogs seem averse to
picking up objects at all and bringing them to the person, or that the dogs
bring a toy or two to the person, but drop it before getting all the way to
the person, and that does no good, because the person still can't find the
toy, or uses a wheelchair and cannot search for an object on the floor. The
eventual goal behavior is, I think, to have the dog retrieve a dropped
object, or locate and retrieve a named object, like keys, the phone, a
leash, or harness, etc., that is somewhere in the general vacinity.
Didn't you have to teach your dog Allie to play with toys? I think this may
be closer to the issue some of our members are dealing with--dogs which, for
reasons of past history or just personality, don't find it reinforcing to
pick up objects and deliver them to the person. How did you encourage Allie
to interact with toys instead of trying to herd tractors and cats?
Another question: Do you think dogs pick up behaviors by watching another
dog perform the task? I think horses learn a lot by watching another horse.
But I'm not sure about whether dogs do this also.
We'd love to hear about what you are doing with Cally. Are you keeping a
training journal on line? Would love to hear about how you are figuring out
what kind of harness will work best and be most comfortable for her over
long periods of use.
Welcome to the group! I'm sure the group would love to hear something of
your history with clicker training and about your vast background with dogs
as well as horses, if you have time to write. And don't hesitate to ask if
you need information about how blind people train or work in various
situations with their service animals.
Best,
Panda's Partner, Ann
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dolores Arste" <darste2@xxxxxxx>
To: <vi-clicker-trainers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 10:30 PM
Subject: (VICT) Re: Retrieve
> Good day clicker trainers. I've recently joined this list and have been
> quietly lurking.
> I'm a clicker trainer of horses. And, dogs sometimes.
>
> I'm an equine student of Alexandra Kurland. And, a friend of Panda and
> Ann.
> Notice who I put first in that sentence. <smiles>
> I joined this list because I've been asked to train a mini-horse as a
> guide.
> I've been thrilled at your conversations as I learn how you all handle the
> various scenarios around having a guide and your continued training is an
> inspiration.
>
> On the subject of the retrieve but not my "stuff", I would recommend an
> exchange program. What you want, I think, is for the dog to retrieve
> things
> that you want him to retrieve and leave other stuff along. And, some of
> them
> are not doing the latter. What you want to do is to break this down. Let
> him
> retrieve anything as long as he brings it to you.
> You then exchange it for something. His favorite toy perhaps.
>
> What this does is make the dog feel like retrieving is ok. So, say if he
> brings you your underwear. You'd exchange that for a toy. If he brings you
> his toy, you'd exchange that for a treat. So, things that you don't want
> to
> have him retrieve, get lower value rewards. Things that you do want
> retrieved get higher value rewards. And, you can even
> give higher value food rewards for retrieves of special stuff. A piece of
> kibble for bringing the toy. A piece of hotdog for finding your house
> keys.
> A toy for your shoes.
>
> I hope this helps.
>
> Warmly,
> Dolores
> www.zenhorsemanship.com
> http://theeyesofmona.blogspot.com
>
>
>
>
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