I don't expect the UN to follow the League of Nations down the drain.. First,
we are members, no matter how some people complain about "one worldism" and
keep trying to get us to leave. Second it has, as you have mentioned, a
record, though not always, of success and its institutions are firmly enmeshed
around the world.
I do not expect a nuclear holocaust; everyone has too much to lose.
I do see Putin as a latter-day Ozymandias or a Hitler wannabe. He does not
seem to have anyone telling him "no." Even Trump had people restraining his
actions, if not his words.
Eric
________________________________
From: Frank Goldsmith <crinum@xxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, February 3, 2022 9:43 PM
To: uupretirees@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <uupretirees@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: Eric Russell <ericprussell@xxxxxxxxxxx>; Simons, William
<William.Simons@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [uupretirees] Re: Larry's latest posting
In response
While I’m not sure who started this current border activity it’s
Probably been around for decades if not more
We’re entering the fray as late sightseers.
Before 2014.
My family heritage is Ukrainian. Full disclosure.
For example, The political situation in Russia is totally unknown to us. The
parliament , and there is one, is it more dysfunctional than ours, hard to
imagine? There is a strong Communist Party, but clearly the oligarchs
influence controls things.
But They are all united around one thing. No more wars on Russian soil. WW2
with Over 20 million dead and the infrastructure destroyed. Putin knows that
full well. It’s not just nationalism, for every person and families, it’s
survival. He has his pressures on him. Biden, as did previous presidents face
pressures from the Ratheons, General Dynamics and other military armaments
greed. Remember General Ike Eisenhower warning. How true was he.
3rd. I’ve worked at the UN as a representative of an NGO. I was elected to
the 15 person Executive Committee of the over 4,000 registered NGOs, for about
10 years. I’m still in touch
It’s common discussion and question why is there so much cynicism around the
UN. And not more general media support? There is no realistic alternative.
Maybe Eric has another alternative. Would like to hear it. Or will the UN
became another failed League of Nations. Not a nice legacy for our kids in
terms of wars. As Larry points out,
It’s nuclear war now.
End the demonizing and find common ground.
Frank SBHSC
On Feb 3, 2022, at 9:00 PM, Wittner, Lawrence S <lwittner@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I’m not sure if this message is going to reach many people, as I might not be
on the retirees’ listserv. Even so, here are a few thoughts on the issues
raised.
1. I don’t think there’s any valid justification for the Russian
government’s current military bullying (and maybe soon invasion) of Ukraine,
its smaller, weaker neighbor. It’s a reckless act. It’s also true, I think,
that it was foolish and dangerous for the U.S. government to expand NATO right
up to Russia’s border. These activities, unfortunately, are the kinds of
things that great powers have done throughout history, which is why it’s
dangerous for them to have so much control over the world’s destiny.
1. There are all sorts of diplomatic solutions to the current crisis that
would avert war and the end of Ukraine’s sovereignty. So I hope that the
military posturing ends soon and that a live and let live agreement is reached.
There really is no good reason why, in the 21st century, nations have to go on
killing masses of people and risking a nuclear war that will destroy the world.
(Russia and the United States, by the way, possess 95% of the world’s nuclear
weapons.)
1. Eric is quite right in saying that the UN is not strong enough to handle
great power confrontations. But, rather than throwing up our hands at that,
the logical solution, I think, is to make it stronger – a real and effective
voice for all humanity that can prevent international aggression. That’s what
it’s supposed to do and what needs to be done.
Sincerely,
Larry Wittner
From: Eric Russell <ericprussell@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, February 3, 2022 7:20 PM
To: uupretirees@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: Wittner, Lawrence S <lwittner@xxxxxxxxxx>; Simons, William
<William.Simons@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [uupretirees] Re: Larry's latest posting
My argument with the UN as is stands is not what it has done, but what it could
have done. When Roosevelt agreed to the structure of the Security Council, he
was already dying. If the Soviet UN ambassador had not been out of town when
South Korea was invaded, the "Police Action" in Korea would not have been
authorized and it is highly probable that South Korea would almost certainly
not exist as a democracy today. There have been numerous examples since 1945
when things that have been done were blocked by the unanimity rule.
I am not a fan of our military budget, either. It has to be remembered,
however, that a large part of that growth is to help the Taiwanese stay
independent.
If you wish to address the question of medical profiteering, speak with your
congressional representative. That person can do something about it.
The Republicans always cry about inflation and deficits--except when they cause
it.
Refer to my last few sentences in my earlier post regarding Putin's goals.
When you pay Danegeld, how do you get rid of the Dane? That question is more
than 1100 years old.
Eric
________________________________
From: uupretirees-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:uupretirees-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<uupretirees-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:uupretirees-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> on
behalf of Frank Goldsmith <crinum@xxxxxxxx<mailto:crinum@xxxxxxxx>>
Sent: Thursday, February 3, 2022 12:14 PM
To: uupretirees@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:uupretirees@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<uupretirees@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:uupretirees@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
Cc: Larry Wittner <lwittner@xxxxxxxxxx<mailto:lwittner@xxxxxxxxxx>>; Simons,
William <William.Simons@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:William.Simons@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
Subject: [uupretirees] Re: Larry's latest posting
Friends.
I respectfully disagree.
NATO is not defensive. It’s a war machine that is fostering its own hegemony in
Europe. At the fall of the Soviet Union in early 1990s Russia was promised no
more NATO on its borders.
NATO is the war machine that backs up US economic and political interests in
Europe. The US and NATO are now attacking an independent nation, Germany, for
being neutral. And demanding that Germany end its trade with Russia,
especially the new pipeline. Then Germany can buy energy from US
Corporations.
Millions are now being spent, without House approval,on armaments for western
Ukraine.
Millions for Pfizer and Maderna. 💰💰💰
And Congress is crying about inflation and the cost of BBB. This is totally
transparent and hinder major voters turnout in a few months.
Keep the old Cold War formulations on the shelf.
Demonizing Russia and China is not the way forward. (The frontal attack on the
upcoming Olympics in China is laughable if not a pathetic effort to interfere
in the growth of the Chinese economy. World leaders especially in Latin
America, Africa and the East are shaking their heads after they were promised
world peace after Trump.)
Diplomatic aggressive moves are the way forward.
Larry is correct. The United Nations with all of its problems is the only
international body that has the checks and balances for world peace.
Frank. SBHSC
On Feb 3, 2022, at 10:40 AM, Eric Russell
<ericprussell@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:ericprussell@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Some of you may have received Larry's latest message.
Opinion | Let's Not Allow the Great Powers to Destroy the World | Lawrence
Wittner
(commondreams.org)<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.commondreams.org%2Fviews%2F2022%2F01%2F29%2Flets-not-allow-great-powers-destroy-world&data=04%7C01%7C%7C9da70eea85104ce03d2408d9e78844e8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637795394724161800%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=kfUSLkuxjOEY2cCUcJDvQCwlxTDBsdX4sz3dKqLpgwM%3D&reserved=0>
While I agree with his general premise about the risk of nuclear war, there are
a few incorrect assumptions built into his message.
The reason the United Nations does not have the power it ought to is that the
other Great Powers gave the Soviet Union and other members of the Security
Council veto power by creating the unanimity rule.
NATO was created in response to Soviet expansionism, specifically to prevent
any further takeovers of territory in Europe. If Putin feels threatened by the
possibility of Ukraine coming under NATO's umbrella, he should. He has already
taken over part of Ukraine, specifically the Crimean region. [Does anyone hear
recall Neville Chamberlain's "Peace in our time" speech after he surrendered
Sudetenland to Hitler? and how effective that surrender was?] If NATO and the
US do not defend Ukraine, they are setting the stage for more territorial
grabs. NATO is a defensive pact, already weakened by the previous
administration. NATO's failure to defend Ukraine is likely to destroy it.
China's bid to control the South China Sea is premised on its refusal to accept
Taiwan's autonomy. If Taiwan, a self-governing democratic nation, is part of
China, then China's claims to the seas between the two nations are legitimate,
as are its military overflights and other provocations. When the Nationalists
took over Taiwan, they declared its independence. If the United States and its
allies do not defend Taiwan, it will hasten our own isolation.
Unlike the case of Viet Nam, the people of Taiwan [and South Korea] have
demonstrated a desire to live free of the control of its neighbors.
There should be no question of what will happen to Taiwan if we do not stand
with it. China's word is not to be relied upon. Look at what is happening to
Hong Kong.
Both China and Russia are bullies, attempting to control their neighbors and
the world. You do not stop a bully by giving it what it wants in hopes that
they will not demand more. That simply reinforces bad behavior. Yes, there
are risks to standing up to bullies; there is a greater risk in not stopping
them.
Eric
