Hello,
OK, I didn't want to get into a discussion about which code is "superior" in a
particular way, but here is an extract of the message I sent John off list:
To your comments below: having used both the old British Maths Notation and the
UEB maths code, I think both should be equally OK for use for technical
subjects. Both codes have their peculiarities and benefits. You mention the old
Chemistry code as "better" in some sense: granted it is shorter for specific
subject material, but on the other hand, it is a very different notation for
how various items are written. You can argue it both ways: is learning a new
code harder than having a few more braille cells to read?
...
For me, one of the major benefits of UEB and the closer link to print is that
you can now more efficiently translate from print to braille, and braille to
print. This latter is greatly improved over the previous codes: just try
writing an email or web address on your iPhone, using Standard English Braille
and you'll soon find the problems...
--
I trust this helps.
With best regards,
James.
-----Original Message-----
From: ueb-ed-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ueb-ed-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On ;
Behalf Of Gala Garland BFH/RCSD
Sent: 10 December 2019 16:24
To: ueb-ed@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ueb-ed] Re: Missing numbers which appear at the start of a part given
number
Well said! Having transcribed Chemistry in both codes, and watching students
struggle with the endless ambiguities of UEB Technical, I couldn’t agree with
you more.
From: ueb-ed-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <ueb-ed-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of
Blake, J (Tapton Staff)
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2019 1:27 AM
To: ueb-ed@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ueb-ed] Re: Missing numbers which appear at the start of a part given
number
This is where SEB was superior to UEB, particularly when it came to Chemistry
notation – when someone is learning French they don’t speak Franglais. Students
would know that when using SEB Math Code or SEB Science Code, the code used
different codes according to the subject being studied. You remember when
speaking a different language (or dialect for that matter) you use the code for
that particular language. I feel there should be a differentiation between
missing elements from text to Math – that way there is no confusion. Users need
to know the specific elements they are dealing with. Even the degree sign has
taken on an almost sighted format with 45, 245. Braille should be owned by
Braille users and let them have the essential data and information they need to
complete the task. Chemistry notation in UEB can be twice as long as what it
used to be in SEB. We need to remember that people seeing with fingers need
time to assimilate the data – lengthening code does not help. And what is
totally out of place in the Braillists’ manual is 32.4A unless they are a
master of reading such text. The low-line indicator was introduced in respect
of ‘blank forms’ – there is too much emphasis of what is in print should also
be in Braille – only the relevant data/fact should be made plain. Having to
learn different shapes that are used for missing numbers such as a square or
circle is irrelevant. An end user only needs to know that there is a missing
number/missing text. Mathematical shapes have their place but not for missing
numbers that are indicated in print with a blank square or circle. Only one
symbol needs to be learned and remembered.
John.
From: ueb-ed-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <ueb-ed-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of
Sanders Alison
Sent: 09 December 2019 23:13
To: ueb-ed@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ueb-ed] Re: Missing numbers which appear at the start of a part given
number
I thought Braille followed print with regards to omission marks. So therefore
‘ing’ is used if there is a ‘visible space’, an unmarked gap in print. The low
line indicator is used if the low line indicator is used to indicate a missing
space in Maths too. Similarly where a square is used to represent a missing
number this could/should also be used. (See Guidelines for Technical Materials
page 19). This is a very definite change in Maths from SEB.
Alison
From: ueb-ed-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <ueb-ed-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of
Blake, J (Tapton Staff)
Sent: 09 December 2019 22:20
To: ueb-ed@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ueb-ed] Re: Missing numbers which appear at the start of a part given
number
Hi, English Maths UEB uses 'ing' dots 3,4,6 for numerical missing information.
For words and text it is the 'lowline indicator' 4,6 3,6 which we use for
missing word/s in say English tests. 😉
John
________________________________
From: ueb-ed-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:ueb-ed-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<ueb-ed-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:ueb-ed-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > on behalf
of Donald Winiecki <dwiniecki@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:dwiniecki@xxxxxxxxxx> >
Sent: 09 December 2019 18:02
To: ueb-ed@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:ueb-ed@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> <ueb-ed@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ueb-ed@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >
Subject: [ueb-ed] Re: Missing numbers which appear at the start of a part given
number
Aye! James Bowden is perhaps our version of the deux ex machina!
_don
On Mon, Dec 9, 2019 at 10:31 AM George Bell <george@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I suggest this is a question which needs to be addressed to ICEB, and
I’m sure James Bowden, our UK’s ICEB representative will follow this up.
Bear in mind that we are talking Unified English math here.
George
From: ueb-ed-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:ueb-ed-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<ueb-ed-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:ueb-ed-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > On Behalf
Of Donald Winiecki
Sent: 09 December 2019 16:23
To: ueb-ed@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:ueb-ed@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [ueb-ed] Re: Missing numbers which appear at the start of a
part given number
I might suggest the following sequence:
Numeric mode indicator, underscore/lowline (dots 46, 36), numeric mode
indicator, 2, 0.
I readily admit this is tricky, silly, and very clunky. However, I make
this suggestion because it seems that placing the numeric indicator only after
the blank indicator allows the reader to conclude that the missing item is not
a number. Of course, placing a numeric indicator in front of a non-numeric
symbol could be very confusing, and placing a numeric indicator both at the
start of the sequence and before the displayed numbers indicates that the
missing item has to be a number.
As I am in the USA, this is based on Section 10.6 in BANA's "Braille
Formats." I acknowledge that BANA's specs do not directly apply in England.
I am very interested in how more experienced others suggest this should
be addressed. I am always happy to be schooled in the intricacies of braille
formatting!
_don
On Mon, Dec 9, 2019 at 4:46 AM Blake, J (Tapton Staff)
<jblake@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi,
Colleague is working with sums and ‘number cards’.
One of the missing numbers is part of a number, i.e, underscore
followed by the digits 2 and 0.
What is the correct format for this, is it dots 346 followed by
number sign and the 2 and 0? Use of the number sign indicates a number follows
in UEB so it can’t come before the ‘ing’ – and should it be spaced or next to
number sign followed by the two digits?
Thanks.
John.
J Blake
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