I know this sounds reasonable and likely, but Robert is quite right about the law, and the quarter mile within a bus route being the only condition forcing them to do so (unless medicaid or some other agency is paying for your particular trip). my point was that the city and county commissioners would find it very hard to face the public pressure, if dial-a-ride began denying people rides based on an "enhancement" to the StarMetro routing. it would be an issue that would likely make the papers, and likely draw folks to every city commission meeting. they know this, and so they may not immediately decide to follow the law strictly. ------------------------------ Chip Orange Database Administrator Florida Public Service Commission Chip.Orange@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (850) 413-6314 (Any opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the Florida Public Service Commission.) > -----Original Message----- > From: tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Blackjack > Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 11:23 AM > To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [tabi] Re: Nova 2010 Plan > > I think dial a ride will still have to pick you up. This is > for people with > disabilities. So the ADA will kick in. The only problem is reasonable > accommodations. If we could get rid of that word reasonable! > Or at least > define it in plain language what they mean by reasonable. > Like I say Dial a > Ride I think will have to pick you up as long as it is with > in the coverage > area they work. For example they would not have to go to > Quincy to pick you > up but if it was in Tallahassee area that they covered they > would have to > pick you up at your door and drop you off at the building you > was going to. > This is what Dial A Ride was designed for to get people with > disabilities to > doctors and work and back. Then came the extras that has been > added on. Just > my thought on it. > > > > > > > Thanks, > Blackjack > misterblackjack2@xxxxxxxxx > > > -----Original Message----- > From: tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf > Of Chip Orange > Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 11:04 AM > To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [tabi] Re: Nova 2010 Plan > > Maybe though Dial-a-ride will still do it (pick us up), even > though not > required to. we haven't heard anything about that have we? > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Chip Orange > Database Administrator > Florida Public Service Commission > > Chip.Orange@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > (850) 413-6314 > > (Any opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not > necessarily reflect those of the Florida Public Service Commission.) > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] > On Behalf Of Easy Talk > Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 9:15 AM > To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [tabi] Re: Nova 2010 Plan > > > This new system will pretty much make most of us home > bound since > federal law says Pari Transit only has to go 3 quarters of a > mile out of the > fixed route system and from what I can tell and is clearly > stated in the > plan busses will no longer go in to neighbor hoods. You can > run buses up > and down major roads in Tallahassee all you want but it looks > like they will > be empty since people can't get to them. > > If it rains, the city might as well shut down the > buses. Not many > people are going to walk a mile or 2 to catch the bus and > dial a ride will > no longer be required to pick you up. > > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Chip Orange <mailto:Corange@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 5:53 PM > Subject: [tabi] Re: Nova 2010 Plan > > Hi William and all, > > thank you for the posting. > > I'd like you to know I've been speaking with > another blind > individual, who is neither associated with TABI or TCB, so > most of us are > unlikely to know what he knows and vice versa. > > He in turn has been speaking with Sam, and has > mentioned to > him that the new routes as planned, do not go directly up to > the malls (such > as Governor's Square), but only approach a near-by street > corner (I believe > he said the Parkway and Park Avenue for instance). > > This would mean quite a walk for someone going to Gov > Square, and even worse, part of it would have to be across > the parking lot > without any landmarks. > > He has also mentioned that several routes would require > transferring by walking across a difficult to cross street such as > ThomasVille Road or Capitol Circle, in order to achieve > certain routings. > > In general, he believes Star Metro has made > these decisions > without considering the difficulty a blind pedestrian would face in > following the plan. > > I don't know if his understanding is correct, > and even if > the current plan is still this way, but I thought I'd point > it out for those > who are interested as an item I would judge to be of importance. > > hth, > > Chip > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Chip Orange > Database Administrator > Florida Public Service Commission > > Chip.Orange@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > (850) 413-6314 > > (Any opinions expressed are solely those of > the author and > do not necessarily reflect those of the Florida Public > Service Commission.) > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of blindwilly > Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 5:40 PM > To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [tabi] Nova 2010 Plan > > > > Greetings, > > > > The following is an on going discussion > I have been > having with Sam Scheiv of Star Metro. In fact here is his > first message, > back to me. > > > > > > Dear Mr. Benjamin: > > > > It was nice speaking to you yesterday. > Please find > attached the document describing the Nova 2010 project. Below I have > written descriptions of each route > > as they are now. I have not included > every turn or > small street, but enough to understand the general direction. > These routes > are still in flux. In > > fact I just made a change this morning. > So this is > not final. We are taking suggestions from the public and > incorporating them > into the plan. That means > > we need to know what people DO like as > much as what > people don't like. I hope you find this interesting and I > appreciate you > calling. > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Samuel L. Scheib > > Senior Planner > > > > > > > > > > > > Nova 2010 Overview > > > > > > > For many years transit concentrated in downtown > Tallahassee where shoppers, moviegoers, employees, and diners > invariably > traveled. Over the ensuing decades, the downtown share of the city's > employment decreased as shopping centers, restaurants, movie > theaters, and > even government jobs relocated to the periphery (Tax World, > Koger Center, > CCOC, etc.). > > > > The practice of transit is changing, > and a growing > number of agencies have found serving multiple destinations has been > tremendously successful, starting with West Coast transit > properties in > Portland, Oregon, and San Diego, California and then > spreading to places > like Colorado Springs and Madison, Wisconsin, a state capital > with a large > university presence like our own. In Florida, Pinellas and > Broward Counties > have similarly restructured their systems. > > > > Concurrent with the 2005 StarMetro > Renaissance Plan, > the 2005 Transit Development Plan, the November 2008 City > Commission Target > Issue Meeting and the City Manager's 2009 Resolutions, > StarMetro has taken > preliminary steps to create a decentralized route structure > plan for the > City of Tallahassee. Once implemented, the plan, known as > Nova 2010, would > distribute transit services mostly along major roadways in > Tallahassee; > several routes will not serve downtown at all. By not > sending every route > to C.K. Steele Plaza, passengers would experience greater frequency of > service and a system that more closely resembles contemporary > vehicular > travel patterns. > > > > In developing the draft plan, there were several > assumptions about conditions in Tallahassee. First, the > system would, like > the present one, serve the city of Tallahassee with the few exceptions > currently in place, such as Bradfordville on the 80x. > Second, we would work > to use, to the best extent possible, existing facilities. We > have Steele > Plaza and approximately 105 bus shelters, and have adapted a > draft plan to > use these resources as a starting point on implementation > day. Expanding > with additional facilities would be added as the plan gains > popularity, as > needed and as fiscally feasible. Lastly, we assumed two > lanes on Tennessee > Street between Monroe and Ocala would be converted to > transit-only use, as > is currently recommended in a study by Genesis Group. Beyond > that, our goal > was to use similar existing resources-the number of buses and > drivers, the > funding level-all would remain as close as possible to > current levels. The > above is based on our cursory draft plan. This draft plan is > subject to > changes based minimally on a full system analysis, review of > alternatives, > considerable public involvement, a thorough origin and > destination study and > Commission approval. > > > > We focused our analysis on employment > density, as > the planning literature consistently points to employment > density being > better at generating transit trips than population density; > although having > high densities of both is best. Since employment densities > are highest on > major roadways, we assigned routes to these roads while trying to > approximate a grid network as seen on the attached map. > > > > Nova 2010 is intended to accomplish > several things: > > > > q Reduce Downtown Trips: The most common > customer complaint is that all the buses go downtown. At a > recent listening > session, a customer lamented the only way to get from one > section of Orange > Avenue to another was to first go to Steele Plaza at the > corner of Tennessee > and Adams Streets. In order to mimic contemporary travel > patters (i.e. to > go to jobs on the periphery) passengers often must make the > V-shaped trip of > going downtown first and then back out again to the customers final > destination. > > q Reduce Redundancy: The current > hub and spoke > system requires all buses to meet at the same time at the > central hub. Since > C.K. Steele Plaza is located along a major arterial (W. > Tennessee Street, > near the intersection with Monroe Street), every bus must > travel along this > corridor at the same time in order for passengers to make > their transfers. > This results in two or more buses arriving and leaving from > the plaza in > tandem to travel along the same corridor for a significant > distance, passing > the same stops. With the concept Nova 2010 plan, the > importance of C.K. > Steele Plaza is downplayed as buses operate independent of > each other. This > allows for one bus to cover an entire corridor, instead of five buses > covering the same corridor, as is the case of W. Tennessee Street. > > q Increase On-Time Performance: Another > complaint staff receives is buses run behind schedule. This > is primarily due > to two reasons - buses traveling at lower speeds in neighborhoods, and > routes being dependent on each other for transfers (i.e. if > one arrives > late, the other buses are held for transferring patrons). > Under Nova 2010, > buses will remain on the major roads allowing for higher > travel speeds as > applicable. In addition, the routes operate independent of > each other. This > means if one arrives late, it does not affect the operation > of the other > routes. Patrons are would be accommodated better with Nova > 2010 with higher > service frequency leading to shorter wait times (10 to 30 > minutes during > peak hours verses up to an hour with the current system). > > q Increased Ridership/Decreased Carbon > Footprint: StarMetro expects Nova 2010 to make transit > significantly more > attractive to a much broader part of the community, and each > single-occupancy-vehicle driver that shifts to transit > represents reduced > carbon emissions, cleaner air, reduced congestion, less road > maintenance, > etc. > > q Reduce travel time for patrons using > transit: Instead of going in and out of neighborhoods, the > Nova 2010 plan > would have more direct service to major employment and > shopping/recreation > centers. > > q Increase frequency: Buses will > arrive more > often giving our customers more options for using transit service with > greater convenience. > > q Increased Opportunities for > Regional Travel: > With few exceptions (80X, Route 17, and Route 21), there are no > opportunities for regional travel in the current system. By > decentralizing > the system, independent cross-town routes along major > corridors create the > opportunities for regional expansion. > > > > While there are many distinct > advantages in addition > to the aforementioned ones of the Nova 2010 concept plan, > there are a few > perceived disadvantages, which have proven to be advantages across the > country: > > > > q Routes would no longer circulate within > neighborhoods. This will, however, allow StarMetro to serve a larger > population by providing higher frequency and better service > to the most > popular destinations. > > q Related to the above, walking > distances to > StarStops are anticipated to increase. On the other hand, > this will lead to > fewer stops, increased mobility, a more pleasurable riding > experience and a > healthier community. > > > > The benefits, however, would far > outweigh the few > discrete disadvantages, which are better communicated in a > longer visual > presentation. StarMetro would have a more dependable system > going where our > patrons want to go doing so in a timely, efficient fashion. > > > > > > After I got this message, as per Sila > requested, I > asked for a discription of the routes for the eleven bus > routes, and they > are as follows.. > > > > > > US 90 (1), 20 minutes: Fallschase, W US 90, S > Appleyard, W Pensacola, N Blountstown, E US 90 > > > > US 90 (2), 20 minutes: Fallschase, W US 90, N > Capital Circle, loop through Commonwealth, S Capital Circle, E US 90 > > > > Orange, 15 minutes: Loop through Paul Dirac, W > Roberts, S Eisenhower, E Lake Jackson/Orange Ave, S Capital > Circle, loop > through Capital Circle Office Center > > > > East, 15 minutes. Village Square, > Capital Circle, > Southwood/Capital Circle Office Center > > > > Southside, 15 minutes: Ross Road, N Shelfer, N > Crawfordville, Gaile Ave, N Monroe Street, Steele Plaza > > > > Frenchtown/Bond, 15 minutes: Orange, Saxon, > Wahnish/Macomb/Old Bainbridge, Volusia, Alabama to Preston > Loop, and back. > > > > Pensalachee, 20 minutes: Pensacola, Gaines, > Lafayette, Apalachee Parkway > > > > Hospitals, 30 minutes: Woodland, > Tuscan, Sunnyside, > N. Ridge, E Springsax, E Bragg, E Paul Dirac, N Jim Lee, N Magnolia, E > Miccosukee, Capital Medical, > > Bufford, NE Centerville, SE Fleischmann, W > Misscosukee > > > > West Loop, 30 minutes (both > directions): N Monroe, > SW Fred George, S Mission, S Appleyard, E Jackson Bluff, N > Woodward, E St. > Augustine, through downtown > > to Monroe > > > > NE to Innovation: N Pottsdamer, E > Iamonia, N Lake > Jackson, E Gaines, Gadsden, Thomasville > > > > North Mover, 30 minutes: Commonwealth, > Hartsfield, > Pullen, Allen, Henderson, Meridian, Bradford/Betton > > > > CommonWalmart, 30 minutes: Commonwealth, Tharpe, > MLK/Duval/Bronough, Park, Gov. Square Blvd, Park Conner Blvd, Walmart. > > > > > > It has been that discriptions brings up more > questions than answere, so here it is to work with.\ > > > > > > William benjamin > > William Benjamin, Piano Tuner Extraordinaire. > The tuner alone preserves the tone. > > > > Check out the TABI resource web page at > http://acorange.home.comcast.net/TABI > and please make suggestions for new material. > > > > if you'd like to unsubscribe you can do so through the > freelists.org web interface, or by sending an email to the > address tabi-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word > "unsubscribe" in the subject. > Check out the TABI resource web page at http://acorange.home.comcast.net/TABI and please make suggestions for new material. if you'd like to unsubscribe you can do so through the freelists.org web interface, or by sending an email to the address tabi-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "unsubscribe" in the subject.