Now we are cooking with grease so to say. You might really want to look at in the future getting one or both of these laws modify to take in account people with disabilities and rural areas. Right now you have a big fight on your hands and the group with which law is going to take president here. This could in up in a long litigation . Sound like you are on the right track. I would also lobby my local by all means if not state wide law makers. Thanks, Blackjack misterblackjack2@xxxxxxxxx -----Original Message----- From: tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Easy Talk Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 2:07 PM To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [tabi] Re: Nova 2010 Plan Sorry about that Black Jack, when I refer to federal law, I am talking about the ADA and the FTA Federal transit administration. Just some more interesting info, ADA requires fixed route systems to announce routes and will audit systems that don't comply. I am working on this issue on a state level and also as a member of the ACB Transportation Committee. Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mister Blackjack" <misterblackjack2@xxxxxxxxx> To: <tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 1:50 PM Subject: [tabi] Re: Nova 2010 Plan > Hi, I think why federal law as you say requires that they not go more than > 3/4 miles off route is this is fine in a big city like New York or even > Jacksonville or Miami or LA and so on. Most of the people don't live out > of > 3/4 miles off the route if that. Plus in them size cities they have other > type of mass transit. This Federal law did not take in account rural > areas. > I have not read the law or seen it. So I am just going on what is being > said > here. Is I stated before you all are still forgetting about the ADA law > which is Federal law as well. Which one would take president here would > more > than likely have to be sorted out in court. Just my thoughts and now would > like to read this law if you all have a link to where it is at? > > > > > Thanks, > Blackjack > misterblackjack2@xxxxxxxxx > > > -----Original Message----- > From: tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On > Behalf > Of Easy Talk > Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 1:03 PM > To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [tabi] Re: Nova 2010 Plan > > Hi Lorie, > > Thanks for the info but I am a little skeptical in the fact that Dial A > ride > does more than federal law requires. The only thing they can do is extent > the 3 fourths of a mile rule and I know for a fact that is not the case. > Nancy folsom had to walk a block or 2 to catch Dial A ride when she lived > on > Montrose and people need to remember talk is cheep and government will > tell > you anything to get you off there back. Before I would believe this, I > would want it in writing from the city as policy that will never be > changed. > We are currently under budget cuts and most likely it will get worse. If > it > does that extra that dial a ride is supposedly giving will be the first to > go simply because federal law doesn't require it. I think there are also > other people on this list that will tell you that dial a ride won't pick > them up because they are out side the 3 fourth mile requirement so I would > ask what they do that goes beyond federal requirements. > > Robert > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Laurie Davis <mailto:davisllb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 12:31 PM > Subject: [tabi] Re: Nova 2010 Plan > > Hi all, > > As some of you may know, my husband, Kevin, is on the Transportation > Advisory Committee for the Mayor. This committee advises the City > Commission on transportation issues with Star Metro. Mr. Sheib is on the > Committee, as well as some other people in the community. I forwarded the > questions that Sila posted yesterday. He posted some of the questions to > the Committee. One had to do with making the street crossings at the > transfer points safer. The other had to do with making textual maps of > the > routes, similar to those books that Taltran had. He thought they should > have carefully-worded descriptions of the routes and the stops, including > landmarks, such as office buildings and shopping centers. > From what he can find out so far, Dial-A-Ride will not be changed at > all, since they already do a lot more than the federal requirements for > paratransit service. > > I hope this helps. > > Laurie > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sila Miller <mailto:silam@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 8:35 PM > Subject: [tabi] Re: Nova 2010 Plan > > Lynn, This is absolutely excellent and I truly appreciate > your time, effort and spokesmenship! > The below info came from a sighted but non-driving friend > who takes the bus DAILY to the R.A. Gray building, and for virtually all > her > errands. She saw these weaknesses with the map as published on the > website. > Have a look and use what you need. I too liked Robert's suggestion of > feeder > routes (smaller buses.) > Thank you again! > Sila > > 1. No bus access on Ocala Road between Tharpe and Tennessee > 2. No bus access to schools on Miccosukee Road (Leon High, > Trinity > Catholic, Cobb Middle and Kate Sullivan) > 3. No bus going into either Tallahassee Mall or Governor's > Square Mall > 4. No bus to Griffin Middle School or Ruediger Elementary > 5. No bus on South Bronough Street between Pensacola Street > and Gaines > - access to R.A. Gray Building > 6. No bus on West College Avenue > 7. No bus on Governor's Square Boulevard > 8. No bus access to Lincoln High, Apalachee Elementary or > Adult > Education > 9. No bus to Trousdell Gymnastics Center and pool > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lynn Evans <mailto:evans-lynn@xxxxxxxxxxx> > To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 3:54 PM > Subject: [tabi] Re: Nova 2010 Plan > > Ok how does this sound. > > I will definitely begoing to one of the meetings at > the senior center and maybe more on the 21st and 28. > > I have made a folder and I will funnel your concerns > about the Nova 2010 Plan into this folder and print the items out to take > to > the meeting. I am starting with Robert's message. I will remove the names > to > protect the innocent. > > Now if someone thinks this is a bad idea or just > wants to sound off and not have it printed out then I want do it. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Easy Talk > <mailto:easytalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 9:15 AM > Subject: [tabi] Re: Nova 2010 Plan > > This new system will pretty much make most > of us home bound since federal law says Pari Transit only has to go 3 > quarters of a mile out of the fixed route system and from what I can tell > and is clearly stated in the plan busses will no longer go in to neighbor > hoods. You can run buses up and down major roads in Tallahassee all you > want but it looks like they will be empty since people can't get to them. > > If it rains, the city might as well shut > down the buses. Not many people are going to walk a mile or 2 to catch > the > bus and dial a ride will no longer be required to pick you up. > > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Chip Orange > <mailto:Corange@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 > 5:53 PM > Subject: [tabi] Re: Nova 2010 Plan > > Hi William and all, > > thank you for the posting. > > I'd like you to know I've been > speaking with another blind individual, who is neither associated with > TABI > or TCB, so most of us are unlikely to know what he knows and vice versa. > > He in turn has been speaking with > Sam, and has mentioned to him that the new routes as planned, do not go > directly up to the malls (such as Governor's Square), but only approach a > near-by street corner (I believe he said the Parkway and Park Avenue for > instance). > > This would mean quite a walk for > someone going to Gov Square, and even worse, part of it would have to be > across the parking lot without any landmarks. > > He has also mentioned that several > routes would require transferring by walking across a difficult to cross > street such as ThomasVille Road or Capitol Circle, in order to achieve > certain routings. > > In general, he believes Star Metro > has made these decisions without considering the difficulty a blind > pedestrian would face in following the plan. > > I don't know if his understanding is > correct, and even if the current plan is still this way, but I thought I'd > point it out for those who are interested as an item I would judge to be > of > importance. > > hth, > > Chip > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Chip Orange > Database Administrator > Florida Public Service Commission > > Chip.Orange@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > (850) 413-6314 > > (Any opinions expressed are solely > those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the Florida > Public Service Commission.) > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: > tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of > blindwilly > Sent: Thursday, September > 17, 2009 5:40 PM > To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [tabi] Nova 2010 > Plan > > > > Greetings, > > > > The following is an on going > discussion I have been having with Sam Scheiv of Star Metro. In fact > here > is his first message, back to me. > > > > > > Dear Mr. Benjamin: > > > > It was nice speaking to you > yesterday. Please find attached the document describing the Nova 2010 > project. Below I have written descriptions of each route > > as they are now. I have not > included every turn or small street, but enough to understand the general > direction. These routes are still in flux. In > > fact I just made a change > this morning. So this is not final. We are taking suggestions from the > public and incorporating them into the plan. That means > > we need to know what people > DO like as much as what people don't like. I hope you find this > interesting > and I appreciate you calling. > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Samuel L. Scheib > > Senior Planner > > > > > > > > > > > > Nova 2010 Overview > > > > > > > For many years transit > concentrated in downtown Tallahassee where shoppers, moviegoers, > employees, > and diners invariably traveled. Over the ensuing decades, the downtown > share of the city's employment decreased as shopping centers, restaurants, > movie theaters, and even government jobs relocated to the periphery (Tax > World, Koger Center, CCOC, etc.). > > > > The practice of transit is > changing, and a growing number of agencies have found serving multiple > destinations has been tremendously successful, starting with West Coast > transit properties in Portland, Oregon, and San Diego, California and then > spreading to places like Colorado Springs and Madison, Wisconsin, a state > capital with a large university presence like our own. In Florida, > Pinellas > and Broward Counties have similarly restructured their systems. > > > > Concurrent with the 2005 > StarMetro Renaissance Plan, the 2005 Transit Development Plan, the > November > 2008 City Commission Target Issue Meeting and the City Manager's 2009 > Resolutions, StarMetro has taken preliminary steps to create a > decentralized > route structure plan for the City of Tallahassee. Once implemented, the > plan, known as Nova 2010, would distribute transit services mostly along > major roadways in Tallahassee; several routes will not serve downtown at > all. By not sending every route to C.K. Steele Plaza, passengers would > experience greater frequency of service and a system that more closely > resembles contemporary vehicular travel patterns. > > > > In developing the draft > plan, there were several assumptions about conditions in Tallahassee. > First, the system would, like the present one, serve the city of > Tallahassee > with the few exceptions currently in place, such as Bradfordville on the > 80x. Second, we would work to use, to the best extent possible, existing > facilities. We have Steele Plaza and approximately 105 bus shelters, and > have adapted a draft plan to use these resources as a starting point on > implementation day. Expanding with additional facilities would be added > as > the plan gains popularity, as needed and as fiscally feasible. Lastly, we > assumed two lanes on Tennessee Street between Monroe and Ocala would be > converted to transit-only use, as is currently recommended in a study by > Genesis Group. Beyond that, our goal was to use similar existing > resources-the number of buses and drivers, the funding level-all would > remain as close as possible to current levels. The above is based on our > cursory draft plan. This draft plan is subject to changes based minimally > on a full system analysis, review of alternatives, considerable public > involvement, a thorough origin and destination study and Commission > approval. > > > > We focused our analysis on > employment density, as the planning literature consistently points to > employment density being better at generating transit trips than > population > density; although having high densities of both is best. Since employment > densities are highest on major roadways, we assigned routes to these roads > while trying to approximate a grid network as seen on the attached map. > > > > Nova 2010 is intended to > accomplish several things: > > > > q Reduce Downtown > Trips: The most common customer complaint is that all the buses go > downtown. > At a recent listening session, a customer lamented the only way to get > from > one section of Orange Avenue to another was to first go to Steele Plaza at > the corner of Tennessee and Adams Streets. In order to mimic contemporary > travel patters (i.e. to go to jobs on the periphery) passengers often must > make the V-shaped trip of going downtown first and then back out again to > the customers final destination. > > q Reduce Redundancy: > The current hub and spoke system requires all buses to meet at the same > time > at the central hub. Since C.K. Steele Plaza is located along a major > arterial (W. Tennessee Street, near the intersection with Monroe Street), > every bus must travel along this corridor at the same time in order for > passengers to make their transfers. This results in two or more buses > arriving and leaving from the plaza in tandem to travel along the same > corridor for a significant distance, passing the same stops. With the > concept Nova 2010 plan, the importance of C.K. Steele Plaza is downplayed > as > buses operate independent of each other. This allows for one bus to cover > an > entire corridor, instead of five buses covering the same corridor, as is > the > case of W. Tennessee Street. > > q Increase On-Time > Performance: Another complaint staff receives is buses run behind > schedule. > This is primarily due to two reasons - buses traveling at lower speeds in > neighborhoods, and routes being dependent on each other for transfers > (i.e. > if one arrives late, the other buses are held for transferring patrons). > Under Nova 2010, buses will remain on the major roads allowing for higher > travel speeds as applicable. In addition, the routes operate independent > of > each other. This means if one arrives late, it does not affect the > operation > of the other routes. Patrons are would be accommodated better with Nova > 2010 > with higher service frequency leading to shorter wait times (10 to 30 > minutes during peak hours verses up to an hour with the current system). > > q Increased > Ridership/Decreased Carbon Footprint: StarMetro expects Nova 2010 to make > transit significantly more attractive to a much broader part of the > community, and each single-occupancy-vehicle driver that shifts to transit > represents reduced carbon emissions, cleaner air, reduced congestion, less > road maintenance, etc. > > q Reduce travel time > for patrons using transit: Instead of going in and out of neighborhoods, > the > Nova 2010 plan would have more direct service to major employment and > shopping/recreation centers. > > q Increase frequency: > Buses will arrive more often giving our customers more options for using > transit service with greater convenience. > > q Increased > Opportunities for Regional Travel: With few exceptions (80X, Route 17, and > Route 21), there are no opportunities for regional travel in the current > system. By decentralizing the system, independent cross-town routes along > major corridors create the opportunities for regional expansion. > > > > While there are many > distinct advantages in addition to the aforementioned ones of the Nova > 2010 > concept plan, there are a few perceived disadvantages, which have proven > to > be advantages across the country: > > > > q Routes would no > longer circulate within neighborhoods. This will, however, allow StarMetro > to serve a larger population by providing higher frequency and better > service to the most popular destinations. > > q Related to the > above, walking distances to StarStops are anticipated to increase. On the > other hand, this will lead to fewer stops, increased mobility, a more > pleasurable riding experience and a healthier community. > > > > The benefits, however, would > far outweigh the few discrete disadvantages, which are better communicated > in a longer visual presentation. StarMetro would have a more dependable > system going where our patrons want to go doing so in a timely, efficient > fashion. > > > > > > After I got this message, as > per Sila requested, I asked for a discription of the routes for the eleven > bus routes, and they are as follows.. > > > > > > US 90 (1), 20 minutes: > Fallschase, W US 90, S Appleyard, W Pensacola, N Blountstown, E US 90 > > > > US 90 (2), 20 minutes: > Fallschase, W US 90, N Capital Circle, loop through Commonwealth, S > Capital > Circle, E US 90 > > > > Orange, 15 minutes: Loop > through Paul Dirac, W Roberts, S Eisenhower, E Lake Jackson/Orange Ave, S > Capital Circle, loop through Capital Circle Office Center > > > > East, 15 minutes. Village > Square, Capital Circle, Southwood/Capital Circle Office Center > > > > Southside, 15 minutes: Ross > Road, N Shelfer, N Crawfordville, Gaile Ave, N Monroe Street, Steele Plaza > > > > Frenchtown/Bond, 15 minutes: > Orange, Saxon, Wahnish/Macomb/Old Bainbridge, Volusia, Alabama to Preston > Loop, and back. > > > > Pensalachee, 20 minutes: > Pensacola, Gaines, Lafayette, Apalachee Parkway > > > > Hospitals, 30 minutes: > Woodland, Tuscan, Sunnyside, N. Ridge, E Springsax, E Bragg, E Paul Dirac, > N > Jim Lee, N Magnolia, E Miccosukee, Capital Medical, > > Bufford, NE Centerville, SE > Fleischmann, W Misscosukee > > > > West Loop, 30 minutes (both > directions): N Monroe, SW Fred George, S Mission, S Appleyard, E Jackson > Bluff, N Woodward, E St. Augustine, through downtown > > to Monroe > > > > NE to Innovation: N > Pottsdamer, E Iamonia, N Lake Jackson, E Gaines, Gadsden, Thomasville > > > > North Mover, 30 minutes: > Commonwealth, Hartsfield, Pullen, Allen, Henderson, Meridian, > Bradford/Betton > > > > CommonWalmart, 30 minutes: > Commonwealth, Tharpe, MLK/Duval/Bronough, Park, Gov. Square Blvd, Park > Conner Blvd, Walmart. > > > > > > It has been that > discriptions brings up more questions than answere, so here it is to work > with.\ > > > > > > William benjamin > > William Benjamin, Piano > Tuner Extraordinaire. > The tuner alone preserves > the tone. > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.105/2380 - Release > Date: 09/18/09 07:49:00 > > > > Check out the TABI resource web page at > http://acorange.home.comcast.net/TABI > and please make suggestions for new material. > > > > if you'd like to unsubscribe you can do so through the freelists.org web > interface, or by sending an email to the address > tabi-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "unsubscribe" in the subject. Check out the TABI resource web page at http://acorange.home.comcast.net/TABI and please make suggestions for new material. if you'd like to unsubscribe you can do so through the freelists.org web interface, or by sending an email to the address tabi-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "unsubscribe" in the subject. Check out the TABI resource web page at http://acorange.home.comcast.net/TABI and please make suggestions for new material. if you'd like to unsubscribe you can do so through the freelists.org web interface, or by sending an email to the address tabi-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "unsubscribe" in the subject.