Deviation is a bit more nuanced that different, it is divergence from a
norm.
I don't know if having your wife dress up as a NAZI while you have sex is
harmless. It still may be the proximate cause of mental illness resulting
in personality disorder. Your wife may eventually start thinking Jews are
responsible for all evil in the world.
It certainly would be someone's business if your wife went into theraphy
for any mental problems caused by it, even if you were unaware it had long
term injury.
It's similar to male homosexuals having anal sex, a deviant behavior, and
later learning such deviation was the proximate cause of AIDS which later
caused the death of one of the partners.
DR
On Apr 26, 2015 2:08 PM, "Ron Ristad" <ristad@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
DR,
Science once said the world was flat. Science once said the sun orbited
the Earth.
"Deviation" just means different, not like most other people. If I like my
wife to dress up in a Nazi uniform when we have sex then I am a sexual
deviant but if she likes doing it and it doesn't hurt anybody then there is
nothing wrong with it, and it's nobody else's business.
-RR
-----Original Message-----
From: "David J. J. Ring, Jr."
Sent: Apr 26, 2015 11:48 AM
To: sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: Johns Hopkins psychiatrist: Transgender is a
mental disorder; sex change biologically impossible
APA is a group of medical doctors, not psychologists.
A scientific study should have been done before any illness is removed
from DSM.
Perhaps they could prove sociopathy is not part of homosexuality.
Maybe research was done when it was moved to a sexual deviation disorder.
I just know that politics and science do not mix when politics trumps the
integrity of science.
DR
On April 26, 2015 1:32:00 PM EDT, Ron Ristad <ristad@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
DR,
"... most researchers have come to the conclusion that sexual
orientation is likely determined by a complex interaction between a
person’s genetic make-up and their environment."
I would agree with this. I have known gays who showed homosexual traits
from a very early age (genetic). I have also known gays who were sexually
abused when they were young (environment).
Research on identical twins has shown that many genetic traits, such as
diseases, need to be triggered by the environment before they are
expressed. But I do not believe that environment alone can change can a
person's sexual preference. Many gay men have been married and had children
before they discovered (or admitted) they were gay. Likewise many men
engage in gay sex when in prison but go straight when they get out.
All I know is that I have never felt the slightest sexual attraction to
any man but when I was younger thought about having sex with just about
every woman I saw and it was something that I had no control over.
"The first version, released in 1952, listed homosexuality as a sociopath
personality disturbance." That's like a teapot calling the kettle
black. A sociopath is somebody who has no empathy for other people.
Psychology for the most part is just a scam to extract money from people
who are susceptible to suggestion and especially those who lack spiritual
faith. The majority of patients are people who just want somebody to listen
to their bullshit and housewives whose husbands don't have the time to sit
and listen to their mindless prattle.
-RR
-----Original Message-----
From: "D.J.J. Ring, Jr."
Sent: Apr 26, 2015 12:32 PM
To: "sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx"
Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: Johns Hopkins psychiatrist: Transgender is a
mental disorder; sex change biologically impossible
I'm not a psychiatrist, but I do know that the ONLY illness that was ever
taken out of the DSM was homosexuality.
It was part of a political agenda. You had to get several things in
place. One that homosexuality had to be removed from the DSM, that it had
to be something that was given at birth, not acquired by behavior otherwise
acquired, that it could not be reverted to "Normal" behavior by theraphy.
I found this on Yahoo Answers.
The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, also known as the DSM, is the
official list of mental disorders that all mental health professionals
refer to when diagnosing patients.
The first version, released in 1952, listed homosexuality as a sociopath
personality disturbance. In 1968, the second version (DSM II) reclassified
homosexuality as a sexual deviancy. Soon afterward, gay protestors began
picketing at the APA’s annual conventions, demanding that homosexuality be
removed from the list completely. In 1973, after intensive debate and
numerous disturbances by gay activists, the APA decided to remove
homosexuality from it’s next manual (DSM IV) completely.
What followed was a swarm of outrage from psychiatrists within the APA
who disagreed with the decision and demanded that the issue be
reconsidered. In 1974, a referendum was called and approximately 40 percent
of the APA’s membership voted to put homosexuality back into the DSM IV.
Since a majority was not achieved to reverse the decision, homosexuality
remains omitted from the APA’s Diagnostic and Statistical manual.
Many in the scientific community have criticized the APA’s decision to
remove homosexuality from the DSM IV, claiming it’s motives were more
political than scientific. Dr. Ronald Bayer, author of the book,
Homosexuality and American Psychiatry writes:
The entire process, from the first confrontation organized by gay
demonstrators to the referendum demanded by orthodox psychiatrists, seemed
to violate the most basic expectations about how questions of science
should be resolved. Instead of being engaged in sober discussion of data,
psychiatrists were swept up in a political controversy. The result was not
a conclusion based on an approximation of the scientific truth as dictated
by reason, but was instead an action demanded by the ideological temper of
the times.15
Along these same lines, a recent radio documentary on the subject of
homosexuality revealed that the President-elect of the APA in 1973, Dr.
John P. Speigel, was a “closeted homosexual with a very particular
agenda.”16
Some have exaggerated or misrepresented these studies in attempt to prove
that homosexuality is genetic. Others insist that homosexuality is
developed after birth as a response to one’s environment. The truth is that
we have no conclusive replicable research to prove either conclusion.
However, most researchers have come to the conclusion that sexual
orientation is likely determined by a complex interaction between a
person’s genetic make-up and their environment.
Even the American Psychological Association asserts that:
There are numerous theories about the origins of a person's sexual
orientation; most scientists today agree that sexual orientation is most
likely the result of a complex interaction of environmental, cognitive and
biological factors. In most people, sexual orientation is shaped at an
early age.17 (emphasis added).
And the American Psychiatric Association wrote:
Currently there is a renewed interest in searching for biological
etiologies for homosexuality. However, to date there are no replicated
scientific studies supporting any specific biological etiology for
homosexuality.18
Whatever the case, we know from the personal testimonies of thousands
that homosexuality is a changeable condition. Stanton Jones, who is Chair
of Psychology at Wheaton College states: “Every secular study of change has
shown some success rate...”19
Go educate yourself RR.
73
DR
On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 11:20 AM, Ron Ristad <ristad@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
DR,
I try to keep an open mind.
Please list some of the harms.
Please link some of the scientific research that you have studied so
exhaustively.
-RR
-----Original Message-----
From: "D.J.J. Ring, Jr."
Sent: Apr 26, 2015 9:01 AM
To: sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: Johns Hopkins psychiatrist: Transgender is a
mental disorder; sex change biologically impossible
You are Mr. Truth, go and get a pre 1970 DSM and read for yourself.
I just gather truth so others can discover that they are being
brainwashed.
Also your putting disease in quotes suggests that you have decided that
Mr. Turing's suicide was due to hormone theraphy and being arrested. Maybe
it was because of other mental illnesses produced by his homosexuality?
It took scientific research to put homosexuality into the DSM it should
take refutation of that research to remove it from the DSM.
73
DR
On Apr 26, 2015 10:50 AM, "Ron Ristad" <ristad@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
DR,
Please list harms. I understand that people who are "different" face
challenges but this describes most geniuses, as well as religious and
racial minorities.
I recently watched the movie "Imitation Game" about Alan Turing, the
inventor of computer science and the machine that broke the Nazi Enigma
code during WWII. In 1953 he was found guilty of homosexuality which was
crime at the time and was forced to undergo hormone therapy to "cure" his
"disease". He committed suicide a year later. It was very sad.
-RR
-----Original Message-----
From: "D.J.J. Ring, Jr."
Sent: Apr 25, 2015 8:14 PM
To: sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: Johns Hopkins psychiatrist: Transgender is
a mental disorder; sex change biologically impossible
The list of harms homosexuality does was never removed by scienticic
inquiry. There are many examples of individuals being cured of the
disorder. Individuals are not born with this condition, and it has not
been scientifically proven otherwise.
You just don't remove things by political pressure. There should have
been a scientific inquiry to see if the classification as a mental illness
was correct.
Such was never done.
Investigate, Mr Truth.
73
DR
On Apr 25, 2015 9:41 PM, "Ron Ristad" <ristad@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
DR,
In order to be classified as a mental Illness it would have to (1) be
harmful to the patient or others and/or (2) be curable.
Neither of these are true in the case of homosexuality. Most
homosexuals are born that way. The only harm is that done by society.
-RR
-----Original Message-----
From: "D.J.J. Ring, Jr."
Sent: Apr 25, 2015 9:06 PM
To: "sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx"
Subject: [sparkscoffee] Johns Hopkins psychiatrist: Transgender is a
mental disorder; sex change biologically impossible
As many here know homosexuality was the ONLY mental illness removed
from the diagnostic manual not on scientific research but on protests by
the social organizers in San Francisco during one of the meetings of the
American Psychiatric Association back in 1973.
Here is an interesting article.
73
DR
Compassion and common sense dictate that transgenderism is a mental
illness. Society owes it to these poor souls to give them the mental
help that they so desperately need, not to mutilate their genitals.
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/johns-hopkins-psychiatrist-transgender-mental-disorder-sex-change
(CNSNews.com) -- Dr. Paul R. McHugh, the former psychiatrist-in-chief
for Johns Hopkins Hospital and its current Distinguished Service
Professor of Psychiatry, said that transgenderism is a “mental
disorder” that merits treatment, that sex change is “biologically
impossible,” and that people who promote sexual reassignment surgery
are collaborating with and promoting a mental disorder.
Dr. McHugh, the author of six books and at least 125 peer-reviewed
medical articles, made his remarks in a recent commentary in the Wall
Street Journal, where he explained that transgender surgery is not the
solution for people who suffer a “disorder of ‘assumption’” – the
notion that their maleness or femaleness is different than what nature
assigned to them biologically.
He also reported on a new study showing that the suicide rate among
transgendered people who had reassignment surgery is 20 times higher
than the suicide rate among non-transgender people. Dr. McHugh further
noted studies from Vanderbilt University and London’s Portman Clinic
of children who had expressed transgender feelings but for whom, over
time, 70%-80% “spontaneously lost those feelings.”
“’Sex change’ is biologically impossible,” said McHugh. “People who
undergo sex-reassignment surgery do not change from men to women or
vice versa. Rather, they become feminized men or masculinized women.
Claiming that this is civil-rights matter and encouraging surgical
intervention is in reality to collaborate with and promote a mental
disorder.”
J Young
jdyoung1@xxxxxxxxx
-- end of forwarded message --
--
djringjr@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org
