Hi Scott,
Absolutely, those are all good questions to consider when performing a tool
comparison. But I wasn't suggesting we do that here or offering to provide any
such information. I feel like you completely missed my point: the user should
get his own data so that he can make his own decision for what works best in
his environment. I'm sure you'd agree with that.
Anyway, I was addressing Yuriy's question about how I measure "good success" in
my projects. I am not a consultant, have no tools to sell, and nothing to
"prove." My job is to please my customer with a quality product, delivered
within cost and schedule requirements. If a particular design flow is too
inefficient/slow/costly, that could hurt our business. So my care-abouts must
also include how well those tools tie into our front/backend and how
successfully our engineers can actually use them. Hope that perspective is
helpful.
Joseph
Sent from my iPad
On May 7, 2015, at 6:58 AM, Scott McMorrow <scott@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:------------------------------------------------------------------
Joe
so the questions I always ask are, how good is your measurement correlation
between the tool and structures in your system? Have your correlated your
measurements to benchmark structures? What is the bandwidth limit that
your correlation shows? I generally find that what one person considers to
be good correlation is poor correlation from my perspective. I'm not
saying that is true in your case,. You've presented no information for me
to make an informed opinion either one way or another.
Yuriy used to be part of the design team at Mentor Graphics before he
formed his own electromagnetic solver company. He's pretty aware of what
is in the Hyperlynx tool. Again, don't get me wrong, Hyperlynx is a pretty
good tool, as long as you understand it's assumptions and limitations.
regards,
Scott
Scott McMorrow
Consultant - R&D
Teraspeed Consulting - A Division of Samtec
16 Stormy Brook Rd
Falmouth, ME 04105
(401) 284-1827 Business
http://www.teraspeed.com
On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 1:51 AM, Joseph Aday <josephaday@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi Yuriy,
I'm sure you can get it from Mentor. They had a hardware/software demo at
their designcon booth as well... gosh I think it was 2013. Do you have a
contact there?
My point is really that users should try the tools themselves and see how
they work in their environment. I felt bad for Chai, who sounded
frustrated and confused that such a popular tool supposedly couldn't
perform its basic job. I actually think the SI tools in general are all
pretty capable, and I've been lucky enough to play with many of them. They
do change every year or so, which is probably another reason why there is
so much misinformation out there (esp wrt to Hyperlynx.)
To me, good success can be shown through cost, schedule, and production
yield. If a particular tool flow enables more of my engineers to more
quickly complete a design at a lower total cost, with good measurement
correlation and yields, then I'm very happy :)
Sent from my iPad
isOn May 5, 2015, at 8:52 AM, Yuriy Shlepnev <shlepnev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:
Hi Joseph,
What is the title of the paper on 28 Gbps you referred to?
Also what was the data rate and the measure of "good success" in your
project? - Analysis to measurement correlation with S-parameters? Or
something else?
I am just wondering how SI engineers come to the conclusion that a tool
actually accurate in general.On
Best regards,
Yuriy
Yuriy Shlepnev, Ph.D.
President, Simberian Inc.
3030 S Torrey Pines Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89146, USA
Office +1-702-876-2882; Fax +1-702-482-7903
Cell +1-206-409-2368; Virtual +1-408-627-7706
Skype: shlepnev
www.simberian.com
Simbeor - Accurate, Fast, Easy and Affordable Electromagnetic Signal
Integrity Software
2010 and 2011 DesignVision Award Winner
-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Behalf Of Joseph Adayto
Sent: Friday, May 1, 2015 2:10 PM
To: zhongyong.chai@xxxxxxxxx
Cc: Charles.Grasso@xxxxxxxxxxxx; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: one question about simulation tools
I second that.. It sounds like you received some misinformation. The
salespeople are very skilled at making each other look bad, so it's good
get both sides :)with
We are using Hyperlynx's 2D and 3D solvers with very good success. Our
cycle time is very short, and first-pass success is very high... even
very small design teams. There was a pretty good designcon presentationa
few years back on using HL in a 28GTs design.Charles.Grasso@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
As with any tools, try them and see how they work out for you and your
teams, in your environment.
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 29, 2015, at 2:26 PM, Grasso, Charles <
]wrote:that question..
I suggest you contact your Mentor Graphics representative and ask them
Best Regards
Charles Grasso
Compliance Engineer
Echostar Communications
(w) 303-706-5467
(c) 303-204-2974
(t) 3032042974@xxxxxxxxx
(e) charles.grasso@xxxxxxxxxxxx
(e2) chasgrasso@xxxxxxxxx
-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
On Behalf Of Chai, Zhongyong (Nokia - CN/Beijing)simulation
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2015 2:44 AMfor above 10G signal, other software is needed such as HFSS and CST , why
To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] one question about simulation tools
Hi All,
I met a question, can you help take a look?
Hyperlynx is mostly finishing about 1G signal simulation, it is not fit
can't Hyperlynx do very high speed signal simulation, what is the
algorithm and its limitations? Some people say that because the effect ofright?
high speed signal in the Z axis direction cannot be ignored, only the
electromagnetic simulation of three-dimensional was accurate, is that
------------------------------------------------------------------BR------------------------------------------------------------------
Zchai
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