[SI-LIST] Re: Those of you interested in Field Solvers, Stack Ups, Spacing, Crosstalk, Matlab

  • From: "burke_ipc" <burke@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 01:46:32 -0000

Jon, Certainly the HSPICE models are the most widely known, but 
whether or not it is the best is a matter of opinion...

A couple of things:

(1) check the link out and view the PCB West paper presented by 
interactive products which details the lossy model structures. There 
is also a white paper button with a compressed non-graphic 
discussion.  Dr. Richard Elco is reponsible for both the content and 
the model creation wrt the papers.

http://www.interactive-products.com/download.htm

Under the presentations section there is a PDF file:

SPICE-Loss-Models-pcb-west-2003-5.pdf (has graphic representations 
of loss models and Cauer function explanations) as well a white 
paper.

Dr. Richard Elco can be contacted at elcora@xxxxxxx . I will contact 
and copy him advising him of your interest.

(2) The advantage to these models is that they are completely 
portable and can be used in any SPICE platform.

(3) We have documented testimonial from various companies which have 
spent a great deal of time validating the models and comparing them 
to HSPICE.

(4) I have followed the dialog in this forum and Nicklas (it seems) 
was merely informing the forum of the FREE EZStack Module which is 
one module: rapid stackup geometry and BEM portion of our product 
which includes a very rich report eliminating the need for SPICE 
during the design phase.

(5) For those who are content and intent to use HSPICE, they may do 
so by taking advantage of the LCRacRdcGacGdc xtk-xfx report format 
and input these values directly into HSPICE and generate a "W-
Element" model.

User's who are current with our latest product revisions who wish to 
comment, please do so.

Best Regards,

Brian Burke
Interactive Products Corporation

--- In si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Jon Powell" <jonpowell@xxxx> wrote:
> I am going to make a statement that I cannot support and would be 
interested
> in
> any knowledgeable responses:
> 
> I had understood that the W-element model in HSPICE was the best 
(Hspice)
> lossy
> coupled Tline model.
> 
> regards,
> jon
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: si-list-bounce@xxxx
> [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxx]On Behalf Of Nicklas
> Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 3:11 PM
> To: cclewell@xxxx
> Cc: si-list@xxxx
> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Those of you interested in Field Solvers, 
Stack
> Ups, Spacing, Crosstalk, Matlab
> 
> 
> Craig,
> 
> Thanks for the info. First of all it is the BEM Field Solver 
Report and
> EZStack Module I was referring to. Secondly, the SPICE model 
generator is
> not included with EZStack, however the lossy SPICE models work 
well if you
> know what you are doing and use the appropriate one. I have 
benchmarked the
> lossy ladder and lossy modal models against H-SPICE, and I have 
found them
> to be stabile (e.g. no causality),  faster and they are universally
> portable.  You just have to know that in general, ladder models 
are better
> for shorter structures and modal models are good for longer ones 
such as
> cables. (This has to do with the modes of propagation and the 
controlled
> sources derived from the eigen values for the modal models, and 
the inherent
> solve time issue with respect to the ladder models for longer 
structures).
> 
> Nicklas
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Craig Clewell" <cclewell@xxxx>
> To: <nicklas@xxxx>
> Cc: <si-list@xxxx>
> Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 16:40
> Subject: RE: [SI-LIST] Those of you interested in Field Solvers, 
Stack Ups,
> Spacing, Crosstalk, Matlab
> 
> 
> > ....be careful of the lossy models that this software generates.
> >
> > Craig
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: si-list-bounce@xxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxx]
> > On Behalf Of degerfors1
> > Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 1:09 PM
> > To: si-list@xxxx
> > Subject: [SI-LIST] Those of you interested in Field Solvers, 
Stack Ups,
> > Spacing, Crosstalk, Matlab
> >
> >
> > There has been much discussion on these topics lately, and I just
> > wanted to advise those interested that there is a FREE new BEM
> > product with a beautiful interface and extensive report which
> > includes Zo,Zeven,Zodd,Zdiff,LRCG, and crosstalk coefficients
> > available which can do all of the things being discussed of late 
in
> > this forum. It has been benchmarked against numerous SI tools 
such
> > as Ansoft and comes up strong. You should check it out.
> >
> > http://www.interactive-products.com
> >
> > Nicklas
> >
> >
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
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