[SI-LIST] Re: Spice simulators - HSPICE vs PSPICE
- From: Peter LaFlamme <plaflamm@xxxxxxxx>
- To: chris.h.simon@xxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 08:59:09 -0400
In response to Chris, I use the Innoveda Viewdraw schematic capture with
Spicelink to create HSPICE compatible databases. There is some initial
setup and a learning curve. You need to create your own symbols and link
models to those symbols, but I think that the PSPICE schematic tool
requires that also (if the device is not included in the library). I am
not sure of the price for Viewdraw and the Spicelink add-on but it is
not super expensive (I believe less than $10K, not sure though). You can
also look into Hyperlynx which has "spice writer" that allows you to
extract your net topology into a spice file for simulation.
Also Cadence Spectraquest has spc2spc utility which allows you to
extract a spice model of your netlist. It allows you to designate
whether you want W-lines , or T-lines. The sigexplorer has a 2D field
solver which creates RLGC files for w-lines that you extract. There is
also a learning curve associated, but it is also pretty easy to use.
I have used all of these tools and think that they are all pretty good.
I suggest Ashok look into these tools if you are thinking of using
HSPICE or doing other SI work.
Regards,
Peter
--
Peter LaFlamme
Applied Micro Circuits Corp.
Staff System Applications Engineer
200 Minuteman Rd, 3rd Floor
Andover, MA 01810
978-247-8470 phone
978-623-0055 Fax
chris.h.simon@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
>
> Ashok,
>
> I don't know the current price of HSPICE, but I believe the PSPICE
> price, if you include the schematic entry package, is more than $4500.
> One advantage of PSPICE over HSPICE is that PSPICE does have a
> schematic entry interface, whereas HSPICE requires that you use a text
> editor to enter the SPICE model lines into an ASCII input file. There
> are people who ARE using schematic entry to enter HSPICE simulations,
> but I don't believe that theses schematic editors are commercially
> supported for that purpose.
>
> As far as modelling multi-GHz signals, the transmission line model
> built into PSPICE is completely inadequate. Or at least it were a
> couple of years ago when I did a comparison of model vs. measurement.
> The w-element model in HSPICE is as accurate as anything I've come
> across in a commercial tool. (That's not to say that it's perfect.)
> The w-element is not supported by PSPICE. Given this I would say that
> even if the cost of HSPICE is more than the cost of PSPICE, it's worth
> the money if accuracy in transmission line models is important.
>
> As far as simulating integrated circuits, I believe that HSPICE is
> used very widely and supports BSIM MOSFET models. We use it for all
> of our bulk CMOS IC simulations.
>
> Chris
>
>
> "Ashok Babu K"
> <k.ashokbabu@gdate To:
> <ariazi@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> ch.co.in> cc:
> Sent by: Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Spice
> simulators
> si-list-bounce@fre
> elists.org
>
>
> 10/11/01 01:46 AM
> Please respond to
> k.ashokbabu
>
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> I have gone through the discussions on SPICE tool on this list. Main
> contenders are HSPICE and PSPICE. What about other SPICE tools like
> ISPICE
> from Intusoft, or SPICE tools from Ansoft? Also some free SPICE tools
> like
> WinSPICE are avalable. What about their limitations? What about price
> comparisons of PSPICE and HSPICE?
>
> Actually we would like to purchase Spice tool for our simulations at
> OC48
> and OC192 systems. We considered PSPICE and HSPICE. The PSPICE pricing
> is
> given as about 4500USD in their website, and no idea about HSPICE. Can
> anyone give us an idea about HSPICE pricing and its updates etc? We
> are
> awaiting response from Avanti, but we hope the response very fast in
> this
> list.
>
> At high frequencies, frequency dependent lossy transmission line modes
> W-Element transmssion line models are used extensively. Is this model
> supported only in HSPICE? Can PSPICE support this? Does PSPICE has its
> own
> model? Some SPICE tools support only RLC models. I feel that they
> maynot be
> sufficient at frequencies of 2.5GHz. Can you please shed some light on
> this?
>
> Also we would like to use HSPICE for our ASIC backend services? Will
> it be
> feasible?
>
> Thanks and Regards,
> Ashok.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "abe riazi" <ariazi@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 10:44 PM
> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Spice simulators
>
> >
> > Dear Luca:
> >
> > Thanks for your good question. =20
> >
> > First let me mention that I really like PSpice due to several
> reasons =
> > including:
> >
> > i. It allows graphical schematic entry of the design.
> > ii. It is quite easy to learn (and work with).
> > iii. A free version (however, with a limitation on maximum number of
> =
> > components) is available.
> >
> >
> > On the other hand, PSpice has some important drawbacks in comparison
> to =
> > HSPICE. For example, IBIS models cannot be directly used by PSpice
> =
> > (and it is often necessary to approximate an IBIS models with VPULSE
> or =
> > VPWL); whereas, HSPICE allows direct utilization of IBIS models.=20
> >
> > HSPICE also offers a wider choice for transmission line modeling,
> such =
> > as lossless (T-element), and lossy (W-element); plus a field solver
> for =
> > generating RLGC matrice.=20
> >
> > Additionally, there are certain SPICE models which can be directly =
> > simulated only with HSPICE. =20
> >
> > There are many HSPICE experts on the si-list and hopefully they will
> =
> > explain why HSPICE is their preferred choice for SI simulations.
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > Abe Riazi
> > ServerWorks
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Luca Giacotto [SMTP:lgiacott@xxxxxxxxx]
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 12:49 AM
> > To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Spice simulators
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, 1 Sep 2001 08:46:58 -0700
> > "Abe Riazi" <ARIAZI@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> > >=20
> > > PSpice and HSPICE are among popular SPICE simulators.
> > > Each program possesses important advantages and disadvantages;
> > > however, HSPICE offers greater capabilities.
> > >=20
> > > The Avant! Star-Hspice Manual contains detailed sections on
> > > transmission line (both lossless and lossy) modeling, and a
> chapter
> > > devoted to use of IBIS models.
> > >=20
> >
> > About spice simulators, I always wondered why SI-people is
> especially
> > devoted to the HSpice. At least, this is my feeling following the
> > discussions on this list.
> >
> > Why is PSpice less interesting from an SI point of view? Does it
> support
> > IBIS models?
> >
> > Best Regards,
> > Luca Giacotto
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> >
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