[SI-LIST] Re: RJ-45 Connector
- From: "Tom Dagostino" <tom@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <leeritchey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "'Curt McNamara'" <CurtM@xxxxxxxxxxx>, "'Chandupcb'" <chandupcb@xxxxxxxxx>, <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 14:13:35 -0700
Lee
Once a mistake is made it is always difficult to fix. That is why it is
usually cheaper and easier to design things correctly in the first =
place.
Many companies design one product that will meet global requirement and =
have
to figure out how to solve multiple agency requirements. This is how =
some
globally applied design trade-offs are made in products. If that =
Australian
agent was not removed from the path your customer could have had to make =
two
products, on for the rest of the world and one for Australia. That would =
be
an expensive trade-off. But not needed if the copper was removed before
certification.=20
My comment was more directed at the lines:
"He is out to lunch! We solved the problem by just not shipping to
Australia!"
I left the punctuation in as written.
Your argument was not a business argument but an attack on the a public
servant doing his job as best he saw and then seeming to gleefully =
throwing
some customers away as a good business trade-off.
What I assume you meant in the original note then was what you said =
finally.
But your original note ridiculed the compliance agent and jumped to the
conclusion that his decision was faulty.
I'm glad it worked out for your customer in the end.
Let's move on.
Regards,
-----Original Message-----
From: Lee Ritchey [mailto:leeritchey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]=20
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 1:47 PM
To: Tom Dagostino; Curt McNamara; Chandupcb; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [SI-LIST] Re: RJ-45 Connector
Tom,
It's easy to jump to conclusion and ridicule. The reason for this =
decision
was, to redesign meant recertifying with a dozen other countries with =
10X
the customers and the potential lost business due to delays.
The way this played out was, the regulator was removed from the
certification path and the product was certified.
Sometimes you have to have the courage to push back when things are =
wrong..
> [Original Message]
> From: Tom Dagostino <tom@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <leeritchey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Curt McNamara <CurtM@xxxxxxxxxxx>;
Chandupcb <chandupcb@xxxxxxxxx>; <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: 6/9/2006 11:34:33 AM
> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: RJ-45 Connector
>
> Hmmmmmmmm, increase potential market by half the population of =3D=20
> California by removing copper vs. losing a whole customer base by=20
> calling a regulator =3D an
> idiot, hmmm
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
> [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] =3D On Behalf Of Lee Ritchey
> Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 9:32 AM
> To: Curt McNamara; Chandupcb; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: RJ-45 Connector
>
>
> Curt,
>
> The creepage distance is on the surface, not internally. The=20
> internal =3D spec is 1700 VDC withstanding and that is achieved with=20
> only 2 mils of FR-4. =3D So,
> there is no need to clear planes that are internal to the PCB.=3D20
> Why do engineers globally apply specs, when they don't apply?
>
> Yes, there is one regulator person in Australia who does not=20
> understand =3D this and insists that planes need to be cleared. He is =
> out to lunch! We =3D solved
> the problem by just not shipping to Australia! The whole market in
> Australia is less than half of Californina, so it wasn't much of a
> sacrifice.
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Curt McNamara <CurtM@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <leeritchey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Chandupcb <chandupcb@xxxxxxxxx>;
> <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Date: 6/9/2006 9:10:42 AM
> > Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: RJ-45 Connector
> >
> > From a safety standpoint the "line side" of the RJ45 can be TNV=3D20 =
> > (tele-communications network voltages). These wires can go=20
> > through=3D20 wiring cabinets where a single fault could short them =
to=20
> > AC=3D20 (Ethernet), or could go on poles outside the building (DSL =
or=20
> > modem).=3D20 As a result approval bodies require a transformer for=20
> > isolation=3D20 between TNV and SELV. To ensure the isolation, you =
need=20
> > to keep=3D20 minimum distances (called creepage and clearance) =
between=20
> > these line=3D20 side signals and anything on the SELV (safety extra=20
> > low voltage) side. =3D
>
> > In practice this requires there be no planes under the output=20
> > side,=3D20 since the distance between the planes and the output =
traces=20
> > or pins=3D20 would violate the standard. You should check with your=20
> > approvals body=3D20 to ensure that the correct standard is being=20
> > applied.
> >
> > Curt
> >
> > Curt McNamara. P.E.=3D3D20
> > Senior Electrical Engineer=3D3D20
> > Logic Product Development=3D3D20
> > 411 Washington Ave. N Suite 101=3D3D20
> > Minneapolis, MN 55401=3D3D20
> > Tel 612-436-5178=3D3D20
> > Fax 612-672-0443=3D3D20
> > curtm@xxxxxxxxxxx=3D3D20
> > www.logicpd.com=3D3D20
> > This message (including any attachments) contains confidential=3D20=20
> > information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and=20
> > is=3D20 protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you =
> > should=3D20 delete this message and are hereby notified that any=20
> > disclosure,=3D20 copying, or distribution of this message, or the=20
> > taking of any action=3D20 based on it, is strictly prohibited.
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=3D20=20
> > [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > On Behalf Of Lee Ritchey
> > Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 11:00 AM
> > To: Chandupcb; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: RJ-45 Connector
> >
> >
> > Chandu,
> >
> > There is no valid reason to do this. Rules like this are often=20
> > called =3D
>
> > elephant repellant.
> >
> >
> > > [Original Message]
> > > From: Chandupcb <chandupcb@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > To: <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Date: 6/9/2006 3:46:00 AM
> > > Subject: [SI-LIST] RJ-45 Connector
> > >
> > > Hi Gurus,
> > > May I know why will we remove the Plane under the =
RJ-45=3D3D20=3D20=20
> > > connector.Some
> > times only chasis gnd is Allowed under the connector.
> > >
> > > Why?
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Chandu
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
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