[SI-LIST] Re: Question on SI measurement/validation without receiveraccess
- From: Zhangkun <zhang_kun@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: gstokes@xxxxxxxxx, arsenault_brian@xxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 18:17:11 +0800
Geoff
I use HSPICE for si simulation. I have also meet this kind of problem. If there
is significant coupling, the number of equation should equal that of unknown
quantity.
Best Regards
Zhangkun
2004.9.30
----- Original Message -----
From: "Geoff Stokes" <gstokes@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <zhang_kun@xxxxxxxxxx>; <arsenault_brian@xxxxxxx>
Cc: <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 4:45 PM
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Question on SI measurement/validation without
receiveraccess
> Zhangkun
>
> You are right I think for a single transmission line which is characterised
> and included in the simulation. If there is significant coupling to/from
> other lines then a more complex model is required. What tools would you use
> for this?
>
> All best wishes
> Geoff
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: zhangkun 29902 [mailto:zhang_kun@xxxxxxxxxx]
> > Sent: 29 September 2004 16:09
> > To: arsenault_brian@xxxxxxx
> > Cc: 'si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
> > Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Question on SI measurement/validation without
> > receiveraccess
> >
> >
> > Brian
> >
> > For a transmission line, there should be two equations to
> > solve the transmission line. In signal integrity, it is
> > problem of 1-dimension which composed of transmission line.
> >
> > If you could not access the receiver and want to check the
> > simulation, I guess voltage at two point should be compared
> > between simulation and measurement.
> >
> > It is only my guess. I hope this is helpful.
> >
> > Best Regards
> >
> > Zhangkun
> > 2004.9.29
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "arsenault, brian" <arsenault_brian@xxxxxxx>
> > Date: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 11:01 pm
> > Subject: [SI-LIST] Question on SI measurement/validation
> > without receiver access
> >
> > > Folks...
> > >
> > > I'm looking for some suggestions and ideas on how to perform SI
> > > measurementsand correlate them to simulations when you don't have
> > > access to the receiver
> > > pin.
> > >
> > > For example, one of our designs is looking at back-to-back
> > > mounting of DDR-2
> > > memory chips, and based on the spacing of the board, the vias
> > > close to the
> > > receivers (the RAM's, when a read operation takes place) will not be
> > > accessible. The same thing would apply to probing signals at a
> > > receiverthat is using blind and buried vias.
> > >
> > > Traditionally, all of our technology has utilized only through-
> > > vias, and we
> > > have been able to probe directly on the pins of the receivers if a
> > > via was
> > > not located very close by. As we're moving forward, it's apparent
> > > that we
> > > need to find a better way to both show the designer that his/her
> > > design will
> > > work, and for the SI group to correlate their simulations to
> > > measurements.
> > > I'm aware that building a test card to validate the buffers is one
> > > way to
> > > go, but in these times, we are trying to minimize extra costs.
> > >
> > > Thanks...
> > >
> > > Brian
> > >
> > >
> > > Brian Arsenault
> > > Principal HW Engineer
> > > EMC Corporation
> > > Hopkinton, MA
> > >
> > >
> > >
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