Zhangkun You are right I think for a single transmission line which is characterised and included in the simulation. If there is significant coupling to/from other lines then a more complex model is required. What tools would you use for this? All best wishes Geoff > -----Original Message----- > From: zhangkun 29902 [mailto:zhang_kun@xxxxxxxxxx] > Sent: 29 September 2004 16:09 > To: arsenault_brian@xxxxxxx > Cc: 'si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx' > Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Question on SI measurement/validation without > receiveraccess > > > Brian > > For a transmission line, there should be two equations to > solve the transmission line. In signal integrity, it is > problem of 1-dimension which composed of transmission line. > > If you could not access the receiver and want to check the > simulation, I guess voltage at two point should be compared > between simulation and measurement. > > It is only my guess. I hope this is helpful. > > Best Regards > > Zhangkun > 2004.9.29 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "arsenault, brian" <arsenault_brian@xxxxxxx> > Date: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 11:01 pm > Subject: [SI-LIST] Question on SI measurement/validation > without receiver access > > > Folks... > > > > I'm looking for some suggestions and ideas on how to perform SI > > measurementsand correlate them to simulations when you don't have > > access to the receiver > > pin. > > > > For example, one of our designs is looking at back-to-back > > mounting of DDR-2 > > memory chips, and based on the spacing of the board, the vias > > close to the > > receivers (the RAM's, when a read operation takes place) will not be > > accessible. The same thing would apply to probing signals at a > > receiverthat is using blind and buried vias. > > > > Traditionally, all of our technology has utilized only through- > > vias, and we > > have been able to probe directly on the pins of the receivers if a > > via was > > not located very close by. As we're moving forward, it's apparent > > that we > > need to find a better way to both show the designer that his/her > > design will > > work, and for the SI group to correlate their simulations to > > measurements. > > I'm aware that building a test card to validate the buffers is one > > way to > > go, but in these times, we are trying to minimize extra costs. > > > > Thanks... > > > > Brian > > > > > > Brian Arsenault > > Principal HW Engineer > > EMC Corporation > > Hopkinton, MA > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from si-list: > > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the > Subject field > > > > or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: > > //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list > > > > For help: > > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field > > > > List FAQ wiki page is located at: > > http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ > > > > List technical documents are available at: > > http://www.si-list.org > > > > List archives are viewable at: > > //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list > > or at our remote archives: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages > > Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: > > http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from si-list: > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field > > or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: > //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list > > For help: > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field > > List FAQ wiki page is located at: > http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ > > List technical documents are available at: > http://www.si-list.org > > List archives are viewable at: > //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list > or at our remote archives: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages > Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: > http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu > > _________________________________________________________ Zetex Semiconductors - Solutions for an analog world http://www.zetex.com _________________________________________________________ ###################################################################### E-MAILS are susceptible to interference. 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