[SI-LIST] Re: Modeling and measurement of power distribution system
- From: "Dima Smolyansky" <Dima.Smolyansky@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <fzanella@xxxxxxxxxxxx>, <Tegan.Campbell@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 14:55:34 -0800
Guys,
I would like to point out an appnote that we did based on Istvan's work,
available on our web site:
Simple Approach to Modeling of Power Delivery Networks and Components.
http://www.tdasystems.com/library/appnotes/PDNA-0703.pdf
This work is based on TDR, and it is a modeling procedure.
If one wants to analyze the resonances of the power plane, and the effect of
decoupling caps on those resonances, VNA is the way to go, however. And, if
one wants to create an accurate model of a VNA-based measurement, TDA's
MeasureXtractor quite easily.
Thanks,
===================
Dima Smolyansky
TDA Systems, Inc.
4000 Kruse Way Place
Bldg. 2, Suite 300
Lake Oswego, OR 97035
(503) 246-2272
(503) 246-2282 (fax)
Download new IConnect 3.0 Quick Tour at www.tdasystems.com/products/ !
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fabrizio Zanella" <fzanella@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <Tegan.Campbell@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 1:25 PM
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Modeling and measurement of power distribution system
> Tegan, if you're just looking for an Excel file, on of Itsvan Novak's
> spreadsheets can handle multiple capacitors, at
> http://home.att.net/~istvan.novak/. =20
> I agree that the PDS modeling tools are expensive, but there doesn't
> seem to be a better option.
> The HP 4195 network analyzer will work for measuring the impedance vs.
> frequency of the power planes, I used it recently with the 41951
> impedance test adapter. A good calibration should result in good,
> repeatable measurements.=20
>
> Regards, Fabrizio Zanella
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tegan Campbell [mailto:Tegan.Campbell@xxxxxxxxxxx]=20
> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 3:27 PM
> To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [SI-LIST] Modeling and measurement of power distribution system
>
> All,
> I have been asked to come up with a simulation and measurement system
> for
> the PDS on multilayer printed circuit boards. In researching the
> project,
> it looks like the only really viable alternative is to use a
> commercially
> available modeling package and a network analyzer to make a two port
> measurement.
> The first stumbling block is the price of the packages for power system
> modeling. I am looking for a tool that is less than $1K which allows
> the
> use of multiple values of multiple caps and their associated parasitic
> characteristics. I have seen some alternatives in the archives of this
> list, but all seem to be $$$. The other route would be to make my own
> with
> excel, but the time required is too great. Any suggestions?
>
> The measurement side is coming together, but I have a couple questions.
> I
> am not very familiar with S-parameters, but the combined reading of
> Agilents
> app notes/white papers on the subject and Istvan Novaks paper on
> two-port
> S-parameters measurements have helped immensely. I blew the dust off a
> 4195A network analyzer, and have come up with one 41952A transmission
> test
> set. =20
>
> Before I spend the money for another(for the two port measurement) I was
> wondering if anyone has any experience with this measurement technique.
> The
> 8720D used in Istvan's paper has better specs, but it seems like the
> 4195
> can get the job done if I can connect it correctly. The frequencies of
> interest right now are <1GHz, and I think with a bit of thinking the
> 500MHz
> limit on the 4195 will not be a major handicap. I am thinking that the
> plane capacitance will be the main source of impedance/decoupling above
> ~150-200MHz, and thus should be predictable out to 1GHz from a
> measurement
> that stops at 500MHz. =20
>
> If you see a problem with the assumptions or method described(vaguely,
> sorry
> about that, but I'm still getting it straight in my head) any
> suggestions
> would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thank you for your time,
> Tegan Campbell
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