[SI-LIST] Re: Modeling and measurement of power distribution system
- From: "Istvan NOVAK" <istvan.novak@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <Tegan.Campbell@xxxxxxxxxxx>, <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 20:50:45 -0500
Tegan,
Regarding measurements, the type of instrument depends on what
you want to achieve. The 8720 VNA covers the 50MHz-20GHz
frequency range. You may need to use this frequency range for
small structures, connectors, packages, traces carrying Gbps
signals. The 4195 VNA covers the 10Hz-500MHz frequency
range, and it is excellent for measuring bulk capacitors, DC-DC
converters at very low frequencies. But you can use it also to
measure planes, bypass capacitors and complete PDNs up to
500MHz. It has a newer replacement model, 4395, which
covers the same frequency range, but has better dynamic range
(115dB versus 100dB for the 4195). For medium frequency
range, the 4396 VNA covers the 100kHz-1.8GHz frequencies.
Please note that in the conference papers when I mention the
instrument model, it does not mean any recommendation on
my side, it purely documents of what was used to collect the
particular data. Several companies offer network analyzers,
and new models come out frequently. They usually have
improved sweep speed and higher dynamic range.
Regarding simulations, if you are looking for free tools,
as Fabrizio mentioned, you can download Excel spreadsheets
from my website. On the tool page, the second item from top
handles up to ten different capacitor values. The sheet with
three capacitor banks has a macro to do real-time statistical
processing. The fourth and fifth items from the top calculate
the impedances of rectangular bare plane pairs, and plane
pairs with one user-defined capacitor, respectively. If you
are ready to look into more detailed tools, there is a panel
discussion planned at DesignCon2004, Santa Clara, CA,
where several key OEMs will share their views on PDN
simulation tools (see
http://www.designcon.com/conference/cpanel_0204_415a.html)
Regards,
Istvan Novak
SUN Microsystems
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tegan Campbell" <Tegan.Campbell@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 4:03 PM
Subject: [SI-LIST] Modeling and measurement of power distribution system
> All,
> I have been asked to come up with a simulation and measurement system for
> the PDS on multilayer printed circuit boards. In researching the project,
> it looks like the only really viable alternative is to use a commercially
> available modeling package and a network analyzer to make a two port
> measurement.
> The first stumbling block is the price of the packages for power system
> modeling. I am looking for a tool that is less than $1K which allows the
> use of multiple values of multiple caps and their associated parasitic
> characteristics. I have seen some alternatives in the archives of this
> list, but all seem to be $$$. The other route would be to make my own
with
> excel, but the time required is too great. Any suggestions?
>
> The measurement side is coming together, but I have a couple questions. I
> am not very familiar with S-parameters, but the combined reading of
Agilents
> app notes/white papers on the subject and Istvan Novaks paper on two-port
> S-parameters measurements have helped immensely. I blew the dust off a
> 4195A network analyzer, and have come up with one 41952A transmission test
> set.
>
> Before I spend the money for another(for the two port measurement) I was
> wondering if anyone has any experience with this measurement technique.
The
> 8720D used in Istvan's paper has better specs, but it seems like the 4195
> can get the job done if I can connect it correctly. The frequencies of
> interest right now are <1GHz, and I think with a bit of thinking the
500MHz
> limit on the 4195 will not be a major handicap. I am thinking that the
> plane capacitance will be the main source of impedance/decoupling above
> ~150-200MHz, and thus should be predictable out to 1GHz from a measurement
> that stops at 500MHz.
>
> If you see a problem with the assumptions or method described(vaguely,
sorry
> about that, but I'm still getting it straight in my head) any suggestions
> would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thank you for your time,
> Tegan Campbell
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