[SI-LIST] Re: HSPICE query
- From: <kiran.kumar10@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: <daniel@xxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 04:56:45 +0000
Hi Daniel,
That was a mistake while I drafted the mail. I used the same formula below only
when I plotted.
Best Regards,
Kiran
From: Daniel deAraujo [mailto:daniel@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 9:19 PM
To: Kiran Kumar (WT01 - PES-SYST-WNL)
Cc: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [SI-LIST] Re: HSPICE query
Kiran:
You forgot to scale it: S11DD = 0.5 * { S(1,1)-S(1,3)-S(3,1)+S(3,3) }
Sincerely,
Daniel N. de Araujo
Director of Applications, Nimbic
On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 8:27 AM,
<kiran.kumar10@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:kiran.kumar10@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Hi All,
Please see the Return Loss plot for the port1
[Description: cid:image003.jpg@01CD4EFA.9A043550]
The plot "red" was obtained by first converting the S-parameter file into
differential and then plotted directly i.e. using Port mapping. You can see the
unnecessary events till 10GHz.
The "blue" plot was obtained by taking the original single ended S-parameter
file and using formula S11DD=S(1,1)-S(1,3)-S(3,1)+S(3,3)
Except return loss, all other parameters like insertion loss, FEXT, NEXT and
ICR are giving expected results.
Best Regards,
Kiran
From: Kiran Kumar (WT01 - Manufacturing & Hi Tech)
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 10:46 AM
To: 'si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>'
Subject: RE: [SI-LIST] HSPICE query
Hi All,
I think I may not have explained my query clearly. The S-parameter file from
the connector vendor is single-ended and is correct without any issues. If I
plot the differential Return Loss using formula in Synopsis Custom Waveview,
there is no noise and the plot matches the one provided by the vendor.
The problem arises when I use HSPICE to generate differential port S-parameter
file from single-ended S-parameter file. Or I should say when I use P-element
like below:
"P1 1 3 0 Z0P port=1
P2 2 4 0 Z0P port=2"
Please let me know if I query is still not clear.
Thanks in advance.
Best Regards,
Kiran
From: Kiran Kumar (WT01 - Manufacturing & Hi Tech)
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 7:10 PM
To: 'bala'
Cc: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: [SI-LIST] HSPICE query
Hi Bala,
Thanks for your quick response. But your suggestion is not helping.
Best Regards,
Kiran
From: bala [mailto:balaseven@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:balaseven@xxxxxxxxx>]
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 4:41 PM
To: Kiran Kumar (WT01 - Manufacturing & Hi Tech)
Cc: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [SI-LIST] HSPICE query
Kiran,
Generally, P should have N reference for differential parameter,not
node0/gnd.Connect node 1 of 100ohm to P and node 2 to N and try.Since you are
getting issue on return loss alone,this should be the impedance/termination
issue.
Regards
bala
On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 3:26 PM,
<kiran.kumar10@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:kiran.kumar10@xxxxxxxxx><mailto:kiran.kumar10@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:kiran.kumar10@xxxxxxxxx>>>
wrote:
Hi Bala,
No. I am just using P-element to convert Single ended S-parameter to
differential S-parameter. Moreover only return loss is showing issue; all other
measurements like Insertion loss, NEXT, FEXT etc. remains the same like vendor
provided plots.
Best Regards,
Kiran
From: bala
[mailto:balaseven@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:balaseven@xxxxxxxxx><mailto:balaseven@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:balaseven@xxxxxxxxx>>]
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 2:17 PM
To: Kiran Kumar (WT01 - Manufacturing & Hi Tech)
Cc:
si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx><mailto:si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
Subject: Re: [SI-LIST] HSPICE query
Hi Kiran,
Did you terminate both the port with 100ohm resistor?
Regards
bala
On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 11:37 AM,
<kiran.kumar10@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:kiran.kumar10@xxxxxxxxx><mailto:kiran.kumar10@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:kiran.kumar10@xxxxxxxxx>>>
wrote:
Hi,
I am working on a project that uses a 6-pair X 4-wafer connector with 24
differential pairs of 100Ohms differential impedance. Vendor provided a single
ended S-parameter connector model for the same.
When I use HSPICE port element(P-element) and .LIN command to convert the
single ended parameter to differential and plot the Return Loss in Custom
Waveview, I am getting very bad noise in the frequency range up to 10G (noise
frequency of 100MHz). But if I use the original single ended S-parameter file
directly and use port conversion formula (eg. S11DD= S11-S13+S31+S33 for each
port) Then I am getting a clean Return Loss plot as the plot provided by the
vendor.
The port conversion using P-element is introducing noise in the generated
differential S-parameter model.
Can someone help me get around this issue?
Please revert back if the question is not clear.
Thanks in advance.
Best Regards,
Kiran
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