[SI-LIST] Re: HSPICE query

  • From: Daniel deAraujo <daniel@xxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: kiran.kumar10@xxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:49:04 -0500

Kiran:
        You forgot to scale it:  S11DD =  0.5 * {
S(1,1)-S(1,3)-S(3,1)+S(3,3) }


Sincerely,

* Daniel N. de Araujo
*Director of Applications, *Nimbic*



On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 8:27 AM, <kiran.kumar10@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Hi All,
> Please see the Return Loss plot for the port1
>
> [Description: cid:image003.jpg@01CD4EFA.9A043550]
>
> The plot "red" was obtained by first converting the S-parameter file into
> differential and then plotted directly i.e. using Port mapping. You can see
> the unnecessary events till 10GHz.
>
> The "blue" plot was obtained by taking the original single ended
> S-parameter file and using formula S11DD=S(1,1)-S(1,3)-S(3,1)+S(3,3)
>
> Except return loss, all other parameters like insertion loss, FEXT, NEXT
> and ICR are giving expected results.
>
> Best Regards,
> Kiran
>
>
> From: Kiran Kumar (WT01 - Manufacturing & Hi Tech)
> Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 10:46 AM
> To: 'si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
> Subject: RE: [SI-LIST] HSPICE query
>
> Hi All,
>
> I think I may not have explained my query clearly. The S-parameter file
> from the connector vendor is single-ended and is correct without any
> issues. If I plot the differential Return Loss using formula in Synopsis
> Custom Waveview, there is no noise and the plot matches the one provided by
> the vendor.
>
> The problem arises when I use HSPICE to generate differential port
> S-parameter file from single-ended S-parameter file. Or I should say when I
> use P-element like below:
>
> "P1         1              3              0              Z0P    port=1
>  P2         2              4              0              Z0P    port=2"
>
> Please let me know if I query is still not clear.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Best Regards,
> Kiran
>
>
>
> From: Kiran Kumar (WT01 - Manufacturing & Hi Tech)
> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 7:10 PM
> To: 'bala'
> Cc: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: [SI-LIST] HSPICE query
>
> Hi Bala,
>
> Thanks for your quick response. But your suggestion is not helping.
>
> Best Regards,
> Kiran
>
> From: bala [mailto:balaseven@xxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 4:41 PM
> To: Kiran Kumar (WT01 - Manufacturing & Hi Tech)
> Cc: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [SI-LIST] HSPICE query
>
> Kiran,
>
> Generally, P should have N reference for differential parameter,not
> node0/gnd.Connect node 1 of 100ohm to P and node 2 to N and try.Since you
> are getting issue on return loss alone,this should be the
> impedance/termination issue.
>
> Regards
> bala
> On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 3:26 PM, <kiran.kumar10@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:
> kiran.kumar10@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> Hi Bala,
>
> No. I am just using P-element to convert Single ended S-parameter to
> differential S-parameter. Moreover only return loss is showing issue; all
> other measurements like Insertion loss, NEXT, FEXT etc. remains the same
> like vendor provided plots.
>
> Best Regards,
> Kiran
>
> From: bala [mailto:balaseven@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:balaseven@xxxxxxxxx>]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 2:17 PM
> To: Kiran Kumar (WT01 - Manufacturing & Hi Tech)
> Cc: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [SI-LIST] HSPICE query
>
> Hi Kiran,
>
> Did you terminate both the port with 100ohm resistor?
>
> Regards
> bala
> On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 11:37 AM, <kiran.kumar10@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:
> kiran.kumar10@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am working on a project that uses a 6-pair X 4-wafer connector with 24
> differential pairs of 100Ohms differential impedance. Vendor provided a
> single ended S-parameter connector model for the same.
>
>
>
> When I use HSPICE port element(P-element) and .LIN command to convert the
> single ended parameter to differential and plot the Return Loss in Custom
> Waveview, I am getting very bad noise in the frequency range up to 10G
> (noise frequency of 100MHz). But if I use the original single ended
> S-parameter file directly and use port conversion formula (eg. S11DD=
> S11-S13+S31+S33 for each port) Then I am getting a clean Return Loss plot
> as the plot provided by the vendor.
>
> The port conversion using P-element is introducing noise in the generated
> differential S-parameter model.
>
> Can someone help me get around this issue?
>
> Please revert back if the question is not clear.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Best Regards,
> Kiran
>
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> --
> bala
>
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>
>
> --
> bala
>
> Please do not print this email unless it is absolutely necessary.
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> The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments
> to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and
> may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are
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