Gary: Thanks for your suggestion. I'm interested in more details of AMS model. Currently we use heavily Mentor SI tool for general board simulation (ICX and ePD) but we still use HSPICE for Gbps stuff. The device I'm referring to is Virtex II Pro Rocket I/O. I roughly remember that Xilinx provide some type of behavior model for ICX but not sure whether this is what you are referring to. Please let me know. Regards Perry ======================================= Perry Qu Design & Qualification, Alcatel Canada 600 March Road, Ottawa ON, K2K 2E6 DID: 613-7846720 Fax: 613-5993642 Email: perry.qu@xxxxxxxxxxx ======================================= -----Original Message----- From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Pratt, Gary Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 12:37 PM To: Perry.Qu@xxxxxxxxxxx; si-list Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Bit pattern for high speed serial link simulation Perry, With an AMS model and an AMS-SI simulator, you could simulate your PRBS15 pattern in an hour or so. And, you wouldn't need to be concerned with the loss of crosstalk or non-linear driver information which are characteristic of many frequency-domain channel analysis techniques. With an AMS model, you could also investigate the effects of PLL jitter and other sampling effects. And, you could simulate the non-deterministic jitter to investigate any possible jitter amplification caused by the channel. Plus, you could add automated measurements to accelerate your analysis process. Plus ... I'll be delivering a half-day tutorial on AMS and IBIS 4.1 at DesignCon February 6 if you are interested. Could also do a 45-minute WebEx summary if you have enough interest at your company. =20 To gain the full benefit of the AMS model speed, it is also important to use a simulator which uses analytical integrals for fast and accurate time-domain analysis of the s-parameter package and channel models. There is also a session at DesignCon which touches on this (session 5-WA2, Wednesday, 9:40 AM). =20 I can also help you work with your silicon provider to develop the AMS models, if that would be helpful. =20 Gary -----Original Message----- From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Perry Qu Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 4:00 PM To: 'steve weir'; 'si-list' Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Bit pattern for high speed serial link simulation Steve: Thanks for the suggestion. This is through encoder. I'm running a PRBS15 pattern simulation right now (already a week) and I do noticed closure of eye mask due to the pattern. May try an even longer pattern but the simulation in hspice is just too slow. Will probably look into Allegro PCB SI channel analysis tool. Regards Perry =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20 Perry Qu=20 Design & Qualification, Alcatel Canada=20 600 March Road, Ottawa ON, K2K 2E6=20 DID: 613-7846720 Fax: 613-5993642=20 Email: perry.qu@xxxxxxxxxxx=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20 -----Original Message----- From: steve weir [mailto:weirsi@xxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 4:26 PM To: Perry.Qu@xxxxxxxxxxx; si-list Subject: Re: [SI-LIST] Bit pattern for high speed serial link simulation Perry, if you are bypassing the encoder/decoder, then PRBS7 generates sufficient run-length. If you are driving the encoder, you want a run length > 15, so PRBS21 or PRBS31 would be a better choice. Steve. At 03:21 PM 11/28/2005 -0500, Perry Qu wrote: >Hi, > >What will be a realistic bit pattern to use for simulation of a >serial=20 link >(3Gbps) with 8B/10B encoding ? Right now I used PRBS7 pattern but >I'm=20 not sure whether it captured the worst case pattern compared >to=20 reality, where the live data traffic is a lot more random. 8B/10B >has a >run length of 5 but if it's fed with say a PRBS31 bit stream, will I=20 >get more spectrum peaks than just a pure PRBS7 pattern without encoding >which repeat itself every >127 bits ? > >Thanks > >Perry > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 >D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > >Perry Qu > >Design & Qualification, Alcatel Canada > >600 March Road, Ottawa ON, K2K 2E6 > >DID: 613-7846720 Fax: 613-5993642 > >Email: perry.qu@xxxxxxxxxxx > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 >D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------ >To unsubscribe from si-list: >si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field > >or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: >//www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list > >For help: >si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field > >List FAQ wiki page is located at: > http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ > >List technical documents are available at: > http://www.si-list.org > >List archives are viewable at: > //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list >or at our remote archives: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages >Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: > http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu > ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List FAQ wiki page is located at: http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ List technical documents are available at: http://www.si-list.org List archives are viewable at: =20 //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu =20 ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List FAQ wiki page is located at: http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ List technical documents are available at: http://www.si-list.org List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List FAQ wiki page is located at: http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ List technical documents are available at: http://www.si-list.org List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu