[ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: .... training and the GSD
- From: Pinehillgsds@xxxxxxx
- To: marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx, wmj1944@xxxxxxxxx, showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 08:57:43 -0400 (EDT)
Yeah...BUT...even people who have had GSDs or other large dogs previously
(one of my qualifiers BTW), have been sold the "cookie power" training
methods now. I forget which store someone told me they were in but they no
longer carry choke or martingale collars.
Next we have the "wait out the behavior" obedience trainers, in other
words, wait for a dog to do something right and rain cookies on them. (Rhett
is laying at my feet now, should I rain cookies on him for laying down?
"Good lay down!" He'd be happy but convinced I really have lost my mind!)
Then we have the Cesar Millan followers who think problems THEY create can
be solved in a 1/2 hour between commercial breaks.
You can qualify potential buyers until you are blue in the face but the
reality is, once that puppy leaves your hands, there's very little you can do
to combat the row of business cards at the vets' offices, the solicitations
for in-home training and the nuts who are supporting dog cookie companies.
I know we're in trouble when they are paying the vet to trim 12 week old
Princess' nails....
There has to be a happy medium. The old snatch-and-jerk don training
method was a bit much, the "cookie power" method is ruining just as many dogs.
Hopefully the pendulum will swing back towards center a bit. My puppy
packet is now almost book length but I doubt fewer then 10% actually READ it.
I can tell by the questions that come up.
Kathy, member GSDCA, DVGSDC
Celebrating generations of Dual Titled TC'd Champions
visit http://www.pinehillgsds.com/
In a message dated 4/6/2014 9:59:50 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:
I always ask possible buyers if they have owned a GSD before and try to
get
them to talk about that experience. We Need to know if it is the right
Breed for them...or if they are the right owner for a GSD.
Zoa is right on. This Breed is supposed to be powerful enough in
character
to take a threatening 'hit' from a big Ram and go over fences and through
almost anything when 'sent in' after someone..and the 'stick' when learning
SchH
I think it can handle a tough correction when it is getting out of control
with
bites or aggression towards people or another dog.
You cannot control a dog that is too aggressive and out of control as some
are
when tested around sheep... by withholding treats while they go after the
sheep
or slipping them a cookie if they do something RIGHT! They need a QUICK
and
harsh correction...not a COOKIE! They should thrive on PRAISE.
Cookies and treats are great for teaching a dog to alert and double....NOT
for
discipline. Does no good to treat them for NOT doing something unless you
have
YEARS to work on it. They don't think that way about food. They just want
more.
Carolyn marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.marhaven.com
-----Original Message-----
From: On Behalf Of Steve Reierstad Subject: Re: puppy training and the GSD
It is sad to know that this kind of "Training" is now the "IN Thing".
Sadder yet is that some people are
making Money off teaching puppies all the wrong things. Dr. Rockenstein's
comparison to the "Entitlement Generation" is spot-on.
Steve Reierstad
Subject: Re: puppy training and the GSD
As many of you know, this (positive only) is the new trend in obedience
training. I really do not think
it is the way to go for gsd puppies! It is like the permissive parenting
that resulted in "the entitlement generation" that teachers and employers
struggle with today. I don't want to see my puppy buyers raising
gsds that feel "entitled" to bite them, jump up on them, pull them down
the
street, run wild because they
feel like it, etc. While I did not spank my children, and don't beat my
dogs, I do enforce boundaries and limits. Biting me is never allowed.
Rule # 1. If a puppy is not biting me at the moment, and I give a cookie,
am I teaching the puppy
not to bite me? I doubt it. I thank Sue for her post about this.
The last thing we need is more gsds in rescue for undue aggression!
Dr. Zoa Rockenstein
www.riverrockgermanshepherds.com
> From: Amy Greenhut <genoaktortoise@xxxxxxxxxxx>> To:
arcturusgermanshepherds@xxxxxxxxx
>It sounds to me like the people who were teaching the dog training have no
clue as to what they
are doing and totally have this puppy thinking it is okay to do what he
wants and he will get a
cookie even if he does something wrong. It certainly is not the dog's
fault!!! >
>Amy Greenhut >Justrock German Shepherds
>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sue Tomlinson" <arcturusgermanshepherds@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: puppy training and the GSD
I am very frustrated right now. I have a beautiful puppy coming back to
me shortly. Champion sired, ofa's on both ends of parents, beautiful
pedigree, deep red sable. Sound, sweet tempered parents.
Puppy is almost 7 months old. The owners tried to do everything right.
Took him to puppy classes starting at 9 weeks, where an older puppy
jumped on him and began to drag him around. This went on every week for 8
weeks. Instructor said " let them play!" so the owners did.
The 8 week course was a "Champion of my Heart" training. In other
words, all positive, no choke collars, no martingales, nothing but a soft
buckle collars. You weren't allowed to use the word no, or a corrective
sound. You followed the puppy around and when it sat you praised it and
gave it a cookie. As the weeks went on you could "position" your puppy
and
then, of course, give it a cookie.
Not surprisingly, at the end of 8 weeks the puppy knew little more than
sit and to run from bigger dogs.
So, another 8 week class was in order. At home, if the puppy was doing
something it shouldn't the owners were told to distract the puppy with a
toy and then....you guessed it! Give a cookie! By 5 months the puppy was
destroying things in the house, jumping up on people and had begun barking
at people coming to the house. The owners did what they were told and
would distract him with a toy or cookie and then give him a cookie! Guess
what he has learned?
The first time they brought him out to start training with me they told me
not to look him in the eye or he would bark at me. The puppy began to jump
around and pull the owners all over the place. The wife immediately said,
"Wait!" I have cookies in the car and ran to get the cookies.
Training went pretty well for 3 weeks with them coming every week. They
were told: " German Shepherds Need a Leader!!" and I tried to enforce that
with them by setting up situations. Sadly they called to tell me the dog
had bitten the husband and they no longer wanted him as he was dangerous.
Here's what happened: the now almost 7 month old puppy was playing with
the 20 year old daughter. He was pawing at her and biting at her hands.
She would grab his face and push on it. Soon she was tired of the game
and wanted the puppy to leave her alone. She called her Dad, who told the
dog to stop ( yeah right ) and when he didn't he grabbed the puppies
collar. The puppy turned his head and grabbed the man's arm. He didn't
break the skin, just pinched him. So much wrong here.
Sorry to vent, but this puppy wasn't given a fair shake either. I will
try and re-train and then find a home with people who are leaders. The
puppy's owner did tell me there were 3 other shepherds in the class and the
instructor had commented "she didn't know what was wrong with Shepherds
today". Sigh..
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POST is Copyrighted 2014. All material remains the property of the original
author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind
are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the
Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its
administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in
any post.
ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY
MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS
PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY
FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE
PROSECUTED.
For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx
VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org SUBSCRIPTION:
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NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/
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