[ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: showgsd-l Digest V7 #127
- From: "MRC" <TRAFALGARgsds@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: <showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 07:34:49 -0500
I tend to agree with most of the comments below. However, I'd like to put a
slightly different spin on Ed's comments regarding the changing of the
standard (as evidenced overtime and the change in our dogs) and the comment
concerning form follows function. Our standard as written, allows for the
changes we have seen in the breed overtime, without the standard having
changed. What has changed is the breeder's emphasis on certain
characteristics, breeding for them or trying to breed them out. This
emphasis might be form following function (I want different characteristics
emphasized in my breeding program if I am competing in agility vs my pursuit
in say schutzhund); yes our dogs should be able to compete in all venues,
but if I emphasize certain characteristics, I may still develop a more
competitive edge within the arena I am competing, this is often not without
the loss or minimization of some other desirable trait - thus the pursuit of
the perfect dog continues, but the dog will still be within the standard.
Breeding to specific function(s) vs general application to the standard or
breeding to the fad of the time, are what I believe account for the changes
to the breed; the standard itself remains true.
So, per the standard, we believe there is a reason for not breeding for
white German Shepherds. Assess the pros & cons as it pertains to the welfare
of the breed and the functionality within the standard and then decide if a
change is warranted. If the cons are such that it is not in the best
interest of the breed, then maybe it's time to consider the white shepherd
as a separate variety within the breed or spin it off as a separate breed.
Coats, to my mind, are a different story. I recognize the merit they
contribute to a breeding program. Nevertheless, an educated breeder and / or
judge should know what to do with them, when presented. What has been noted
time and again, is that we have tended to all but treat coats as a serious
fault or DQ type of fault. The standard reads "Faults in coat include soft,
silky, too long outer coat, woolly, curly, and open coat". Yet,
exhibitors(who may also be breeders) and judges fail to recognize (based on
my observations at point shows) that "Faults of gait, whether from front,
rear or side, are to be considered very serious faults. No, we need to
educate (those who can or desire to be), we dont need to change the
standard..it aint broke.
Mike
Michael Cheeks
TRAFALGARgsds@xxxxxxxxx
610-731-3173
-----Original Message-----
From: Showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 9:08 PM
To: showgsd-l digest users
Subject: showgsd-l Digest V7 #127
DO NOT RETURN THE ENTIRE DIGEST. HIGHLIGHT WHAT YOU WISH TO REPLY TO BEFORE
HITTING REPLY
------------------------------------
Msg: #1 in digest
From: "Carolyn Martello" <marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: The STANDARD is a moving target
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 16:42:04 -0800
When someone can show me that long coats and whites will improve
our Breed, our breeding programs...and the Breed's working/ herding
abilities, I could accept the Board spending time on this issue.
Our Board is charged with protecting the Standard of this Breed,
I hope they stand strong, and do that!!
If changes are for money, the motive is wrong. Breeder/exhibitors
can attest to how expensive this Sport has become..and still we
struggle to continue on because we believe in the Breed and the
Breed Standard.
Those that actually train and utilize a working dog where lives are
at stake do not have time to worry about Breed faults like a ring
tail, or extension, or even care if a dog is good at herding sheep
and likely don't study the Standard. They are looking for a
certain working DRIVE. That is their 'mission'.
We...with our show dogs have a 'mission' to adhere to the Standard.
When breeders do not conform to the Standard..you lose the Breed.
If breeders thought Doxies should be shorter, Poodles smoother,
Bull Dogs sleeker, Great Dane's smaller and Rottweilers white...??
Also, Breeders that show...should all consider more strength of
character and working ability... physically and mentally in our
breeding program. It would do the Breed more justice if the Board
would take THAT on as project for encouragement rather than more
coated dogs and the color of white!!!
Carolyn marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.marhaven.com
-----Original Message-----
From: On Behalf Of edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 7:19
AM
To: showgsd-lSubject: The STANDARD is a moving target
I read on the list that the board is forming committees to maybe allow
long coats or whites into the standard?....whether they are or not is
really not the point of my post. The Board of Directors as I understand it
is to act on our behalf to ensure the protection and advancement of the
breed. That in itself covers a broad scope of issues, the standard being one
of those issues....some things I guess the board can do on its own and some
require a vote b y the membership. Getting back to the standard, IT HAS
ALWAYS BEEN SUBJECT TO CHANGE.....look at the winning dogs and Grand
Victors of the 50's 60's and even the 70's....those dogs don't look much
like the dogs winning in the ring today ...many talk about "dumbing down
the standard"... I don't understand that argument...WE decide what the
standard is, good or bad....I hear the mis-leading statement of " function
must follow form' or is it the other way around.....the GSD does not need
to conform to the AKC conformation standard to do the work it was intended
to do!......most herding, working, and protection dogs I've seen would NOT
win in our show ring.....most German Shepherds in general would not win in
in our conformation rings.....up to this point I'm sure I have angered many
of you, so let me now say this...there is nothing wrong with creating a
standard to create a smooth gaiting dog with wonderful suspension, a great
temperament and drive.......with beauty and "type".....but sometimes as a
group we get carried away and cry out "the shy is falling" anytime some one
suggests changing something about our standard....the majority rules anyway
doesn't it?.....on a side note we bitch about many things the board does or
does not do and we vote the same ones in year after year...but that a whole
other subject... Ed Hill
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