And I guess the second worst would be those out there who would breed strictly for coat, and I have heard people say that they would breed strictly for coats if they were recognized as a variety of the breed.?Several people on this list have already listed?some of the downsides to owning a coat?, I think the long coats are gorgeous and if?a dog is?structurally that great it?should certainly be bred to a dog or bitch that DOES NOT carry the coat factor.? Our Breed Standard?DOES label a coat as a?fault, even though its a? minor one, and when we do breed it should be as close to the?Standard as possible?.?? JMHO.???? Flo Boese? Bo-Hem Shepherds Msg: #2 in digest From: DestinoGS1@xxxxxxx Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 00:56:54 EDT Subject: Re: long coat revision to the standard by FV I don't understand what the problem is. If the SV does accept the "stock coat" now into the system, whats' the big deal? The coat gene is very simple and easy to control in a breeding program. The worst problem is that usually the best structured puppy in the litter is the long coat and most judges will not award it the points. Pick your best puppy based on structure, if it is a long coat just breed her to a male that does not carry the gene for the long coats. JMO, Mary -----Original Message----- From: Showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To: showgsd-l digest users <Showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 9:49 am Subject: showgsd-l Digest V2 #1430 showgsd-l Digest Fri, 06 Jun 2008 Volume: 02 Issue: 1430 In This Issue: #1: From: InquestGSD@xxxxxxx Subject: Coats #2: From: InquestGSD@xxxxxxx Subject: OT: Patagonian Conure #3: From: Pinehillgsds@xxxxxxx Subject: Re: ] Re: Feeding puppies - weaning now worming #4: From: XcaliburFarm@xxxxxxx Subject: Re: showgsd-l Digest V2 #1428 #5: From: "Maureen" <murk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: ] Re: Feeding puppies - weaning now worming #6: From: XcaliburFarm@xxxxxxx Subject: Re: showgsd-l Digest V2 #1428 #7: From: XcaliburFarm@xxxxxxx Subject: Re: showgsd-l Digest V2 #1427 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Msg: #1 in digest From: InquestGSD@xxxxxxx Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 08:49:53 EDT Subject: Coats Its been interesting reading all these post about coats. Here, we always have more hair than the average bear, and because of that my dogs are always looking a little fuller than the rest. At nearly 12, TJ has so much hair, when I groomed him on Sunday you could hear all the birds in the neighborhood getting ready to "redecorate". When he was showing I had to keep a close eye on his weight, or he would look fat when he really wasnt. The standards defines what a correct coat is and that's what we should be looking for, but quite frankly, open, close, full or shedding, please bring your dogs to the ring CLEAN. Ileana **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) ------------------------------ Msg: #2 in digest From: InquestGSD@xxxxxxx Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 08:53:02 EDT Subject: OT: Patagonian Conure I've been fostering a little 7 weeks old Patagonian Conure, and I'm seriously considering keeping him. Never thought I would have another bird, but this little fellow reminds me (now you will be sure I am crazy) of my now gone long coated-sable Mr Beef. Does anyone has any experience with this kind of bird? I believe they were reclassified from parrot to conure, and are from Argentina. Thanks in advance for any info. Ileana **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) ------------------------------ Msg: #3 in digest From: Pinehillgsds@xxxxxxx Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 09:00:40 EDT Subject: Re: ] Re: Feeding puppies - weaning now worming It would be unusual for an adult dog to be symptomatic although coccidia can be found in the GI tract in all dogs.. A dog builds up immunity at +/1 6 months. I suppose if one had a dog with a weakened immune system.... Did you know cats shed an awful lot of the spores? Birds aren't the only culprits. Wherever you find cats.... I send a flyer home w/ all puppy buyers, and if anyone who is getting a new puppy has cats, I make sure they know their vet will most likely RX albon, since their soil will be laden w/ the oocysts, and the puppy won't have immunity at 8 weeks. It avoids a lot of distraught calls <G>. Kathy, member GSDCA, DVGSDC Celebrating generations of Dual Titled TC'd Champions visit www.geocities.com/pinehillgsds In a message dated 6/6/2008 8:51:07 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, myjoygs@xxxxxxx writes: has anyone ever had adult dogs get cocci especially if your on a farm or in an area with lots of birds? **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) ------------------------------ Msg: #4 in digest From: XcaliburFarm@xxxxxxx Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 09:33:55 EDT Subject: Re: showgsd-l Digest V2 #1428 In a message dated 6/6/2008 2:34:02 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx writes: showgsd-l Digest Fri, 06 Jun 2008 Volume: 02 Issue: 1428 In This Issue: #1: From: Lacy340@xxxxxxx Subject: Worming #2: From: DestinoGS1@xxxxxxx Subject: Re: long coat revision to the standard by FV #3: From: "Carolyn Martello" <marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: Long Coat vs Dry Coat #4: From: Elsyd1@xxxxxxx Subject: Re: Worming ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Msg: #1 in digest From: Lacy340@xxxxxxx Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 00:38:37 EDT Subject: Worming when do you start worming pups. Mine are 4 weeks old and on Formula, Raw hamburger and rice cereal and a little water to wash it down. **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) ------------------------------ Msg: #2 in digest From: DestinoGS1@xxxxxxx Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 00:56:54 EDT Subject: Re: long coat revision to the standard by FV I don't understand what the problem is. If the SV does accept the "stock coat" now into the system, whats' the big deal? The coat gene is very simple and easy to control in a breeding program. The worst problem is that usually the best structured puppy in the litter is the long coat and most judges will not award it the points. Pick your best puppy based on structure, if it is a long coat just breed her to a male that does not carry the gene for the long coats. JMO, Mary In a message dated 6/5/2008 3:07:04 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cnnpmm2@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx writes: Carolyn & Norma No L, The long *stock* coat is not a problem as the outer coat is *not* silky. It is the same coarse texture as that found on a normal coated dog. Also, a dog with a stock coat does have an undercoat. This is the definition of a stock coat. I'm betting most people on this list have not come in contact with a true long stock-coated dog. Having owned German & German crosses for a long time, I've known many such dogs and their hardiness has been "field tested." In case you guys missed my earlier post on this subject, I've included it below. BTW, I'm *not* advocating the approval of the true long coat for just the reasons Carolyn mentioned. Anyhow, here's what I wrote in that post... I wish the long stock coat would be accepted by our Standard and not considered a fault. I have owned both the true long coat, i.e. soft, silky outer coat & no undercoat and the long stock coat. The long stock coat is exactly like the standard coat - coarse outer coat with the typical undercoat. Only longer. My dog with the true long coat had skin problems. He was harder to dry, but the main problem was that silky outer coat. It seemed to pick up dust like one of those magnetic dust mops, and everything got tangled up in his coat. Burrs, leaves, twigs, you name it! Burrs were the worse because they had to be cut out. We live in the woods, so I don't ever want to own another true long coat. My long stock coat experienced none of these problems, and would have no trouble doing field work. Plus, a dog with a long stock coat is often *very* pleasing to the eye. Paulette McGuirt, GSDCA Member Allemande German Shepherd Dogs Qui Me Amat, Amat et Canem Meam ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Martello" <marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <gsdramey@xxxxxxx>; <grnram415@xxxxxxx>; <denwil2007@xxxxxxxxx>; <showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 2:04 PM Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: long coat revision to the standard by FV Everything is minor until you have a problem with it. <G> Try getting the velcro stickers or fox tails out of a silky coat when you've had it out herding or working in a field or in Search and Rescue dog in a disaster setting. Also try drying and getting out the snow balls that has frozen to the hair of an avalance dog. Let a blind person try to deal with any of it. Incorrect coats do not repel water but the harsh double coat will. Two shakes and they're almost dry....<G> It's all a fault for a reason is all I'm saying. It's a Standard for a working, herding, service dog. It's really NOT about personal taste. The only one I can't see a reason for other than appearances is the light eye........? I love our Standard and our Breed...... { :o) Carolyn marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx www.Marhaven.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Norma Ramey To: marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; grnram415@xxxxxxx ; denwil2007@xxxxxxxxx ; showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 6:01 AM Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: long coat revision to the standard by FV Carolyn has brought up some goodies - but - the differences (small IMHO) in the actual coat coarseness, fine silkiness, length, etc. really are minor differences. Like so many other things, individual tastes prevail anyway. I learned in studying an animal encyclopedia as as a young Whippersnapper that the Poodle coat & clips were important for what they originally did. (A German breed, BTW; hunt and retrieve)! The stickers & foxtails etc. would only adhere to the outer protective fur and not the dog as in a short coated one) Also, the thickness repelled the water easily. I feel more is better, but thatsa me and the fantastic undercoat of our GSDs truly IS an insulation to heat & cold times. Norma no L ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Martello" <marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <grnram415@xxxxxxx>; <denwil2007@xxxxxxxxx>; <showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 12:08 AM Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: long coat revision to the standard by FV It is a "fault".....no matter how awesome their structure...but so are soft coats & open coats. There are different types of long coats......but they are still "coats"......and they are all a problem when you live in the Country where there are stickers, fox tails, a lot of dirt, or out in the field herding and working. Even snow balls up on their coats and sticks. We've all had 'coats' that are really nice....but I wouldn't show one........too much effort just to get a good dog or a great dog shown without wasting time and money on a coated one. You can already show them at AKC shows as long as they are not trimmed. They are mentioned in our Standard........and considered a fault of the coat! <G>. Why change now? The GSDCA, Inc. doesn't decide what we can show or not show. If you have an AKC registered dog you can show it......it can even have disqualifying faults....( it's your entry fee to throw away ) you just will either lose or be disqualified. <G> I sure hope we don't start tinkering with our Standard to fit coat faults? We have a great Breed......and a great Breed Standard. Why would we want to start splitting it into varities of coats and colors and light eyes, and dark eyes, and blacks and sables etc. This is a working / herding breed and there is a definite reason a long coat is not desired. Though a beautiful Breed ( as long as we stay vigilant ) .our Standard addresses the best qualities for easy maintenance and all aspects of a working dog, service dog and a herding dog ( again, as long as we stay vigilant ) whether it is the coat, the feet or even the long saber tail for balance. JMO Carolyn marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx www.Marhaven.com ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org ============================================================================ **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) ------------------------------ Msg: #3 in digest From: "Carolyn Martello" <marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: Long Coat vs Dry Coat Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 22:30:11 -0700 I don't think the slick coat or dry type is looked upon badly so much as it just does not "accentuate the positive" for the dog. None of us want to show our dogs out of coat for just that reason.......same look......no beautiful accentuations. Same with a long coat.....it isn't that it's a serious fault according to the Standard, but catches the eye of the judge immediately. They don't even need to look for it.......it smacks them in the eye as the dog comes in the ring. For some judges it's a bi-color that affects them the same way....or a black or even sable....or a bad back. They see it as the dog is coming in the ring and if they don't like that........you just threw away an entry fee. <G> Now a missing tooth, or not good feet or a loose hock is often not picked up on until the individual exam.......and later in movement the dog can be so impressive in outline, and appearance and sidegait, etc. that the judge can "forget" what they and ring side cannot see easily every time it goes around the ring.................<G> Judges have to make decisions.....they don't have all the time in the world to think it over and compare over and over.......or contemplate whether to use it for breeding like we do when we have the dog in our yard and see things we like about it. They have a lot of things and a lot of dogs to think about and must make a decision. We all KNOW what we like about our dogs when we make a decision to enter them in a show.......but we cannot expect every judge to agree with OUR preference. <G> Now if you think about it.....normally we are all showing some very good dogs....thats why we drove hundreds of miles to show under a judge. I think I would not be happy if a judge put a long coat up for a major with all the quality animals being show with perfect coats..............JMO. Carolyn marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx www.Marhaven.com ----- Original Message ----- From: grnram415@xxxxxxx To: Showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 11:54 AM Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Long Coat vs Dry Coat Gosh, I never realized this thread would go so crazy.? Lots of good information and opinions.? So, I have another side to this.? Dry coats.? They seem to be faulted in the ring as well.? I know that folks do major grooming jobs on their dogs, getting them all fluffed up for the ring.? I have done this myself.? The only thing is they will stay fluffy for about 10 mins and be flat when they get in the ring.? That is not to say these dogs don't have undercoat.? They do and I can prove it when they blow coat and their runs look like they are covered in dog hair snow.? I can't believe how much coat they can blow. So, my question is this.? The Standard?states: "The outer coat should be as dense as possible."? Now, if the outer coat is very dense, then it SHOULD close up to protect the undercoat from wet and cold.? Yet, why is a dry coat looked at badly?? Or,?am I totally off base as to what a?true dry coat is?? And, if I am wrong, then I would appreciate some grooming advice on how to keep these dogs with great undercoats and short, dense outer coats, fluffy for more than 10 mins :-) Laura Thomas??? ------------------------------ Msg: #4 in digest From: Elsyd1@xxxxxxx Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 02:29:21 EDT Subject: Re: Worming Puppies are born with roundworm infestation...(90%, according to University of California Davis). At two weeks the roundworms start migrating. At 3 - 4 weeks they migrate to lungs,(pneumonia) stomach,(vomiting them up, inhaling them, pneumonia) eyes, (potential blindness) and other organs, before making their way back to the intestines. Recommended protocol is to worm with Pyrantal Pamoate at two weeks, and once a week thereafter until two months, and then every two weeks until 3 months old, when a natural immunity manifests itself. After that, once a month. Allowing puppies to go unwormed past two weeks is very dangerous, and is a frequent cause of roundworm pneumonia, which is usually fatal in puppies. A friend recently waited until 4 weeks to worm her pups, (Maltese), I told her to worm them immediately. They were FULL of huge roundworms, and these pups weighed like 3 lbs. She was lucky the worms had not killed them. I was advised at my first litter to worm at 4 weeks, and I lost two pups to roundworm pneumonia before they were ever wormed. Please, list, start worming your puppies at two weeks, and once a week thereafter. When puppies die for seemingly no reason, worms are sometimes the reason. Besides all the other horrors, starvation is also a very possible reason. Syd In a message dated 6/5/2008 9:56:19 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, Lacy340@xxxxxxx writes: when do you start worming pups. Mine are 4 weeks old and on Formula, Raw hamburger and rice cereal and a little water to wash it down. **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org ============================================================================ **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) ------------------------------ End of showgsd-l Digest V2 #1428 ******************************** **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) ------------------------------ Msg: #5 in digest From: "Maureen" <murk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: ] Re: Feeding puppies - weaning now worming Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 08:36:24 -0500 My vet says any where livestock has ever grazed is full of cocci........and then birds on top of that! Mo > has anyone ever had adult dogs get cocci especially if your on a farm or > in an area with lots of birds? > > ------------------------------ Msg: #6 in digest From: XcaliburFarm@xxxxxxx Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 09:44:34 EDT Subject: Re: showgsd-l Digest V2 #1428 Another recommendation is to use Panacur. Using for one day every other wk and then at eight wks we use it for a 3 day period/series, repeat this at 10 & 12 wks. This wormer is very efficient and does a more thorough job when used to get all the worms. Pyrantel Pamoate is a safer wormer and can be used at 2 wks of age (also called Strongid) with a wider range of safety so you can worm to an approximate weight rather than more accurate one. The best advice is to ck with your local vet to see what they recommend for your area. We also worm and boost the immunizations on our bitches in whelp to decrease the amount of worms being passed to the pups and to boost their antibodies. Again, this is our vet's recommendations and it seems to benefit our particular program. Down here in Florida, we never get a long enough period of freezing weather to circumvent our spreading of diseases so as soon as the bitch/maternal antibodies begin to taper off in the pups, they are more inclined to catch one of the most prevalent...distemper or parvo. We do not use Lepto on a first vaccination. Generally the mom's antibodies wear off at about 6 wk. but we have found we can begin vaccs at eight wks if pups are raised inside and there are no dogs coming on and off the premises. Hope this helps, Debbie In a message dated 6/6/2008 2:34:02 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx writes: showgsd-l Digest Fri, 06 Jun 2008 Volume: 02 Issue: 1428 In This Issue: #1: From: Lacy340@xxxxxxx Subject: Worming #2: From: DestinoGS1@xxxxxxx Subject: Re: long coat revision to the standard by FV #3: From: "Carolyn Martello" <marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: Long Coat vs Dry Coat #4: From: Elsyd1@xxxxxxx Subject: Re: Worming ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Msg: #1 in digest From: Lacy340@xxxxxxx Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 00:38:37 EDT Subject: Worming when do you start worming pups. Mine are 4 weeks old and on Formula, Raw hamburger and rice cereal and a little water to wash it down. **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) ------------------------------ Msg: #2 in digest From: DestinoGS1@xxxxxxx Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 00:56:54 EDT Subject: Re: long coat revision to the standard by FV I don't understand what the problem is. If the SV does accept the "stock coat" now into the system, whats' the big deal? The coat gene is very simple and easy to control in a breeding program. The worst problem is that usually the best structured puppy in the litter is the long coat and most judges will not award it the points. Pick your best puppy based on structure, if it is a long coat just breed her to a male that does not carry the gene for the long coats. JMO, Mary In a message dated 6/5/2008 3:07:04 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cnnpmm2@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx writes: Carolyn & Norma No L, The long *stock* coat is not a problem as the outer coat is *not* silky. It is the same coarse texture as that found on a normal coated dog. Also, a dog with a stock coat does have an undercoat. This is the definition of a stock coat. I'm betting most people on this list have not come in contact with a true long stock-coated dog. Having owned German & German crosses for a long time, I've known many such dogs and their hardiness has been "field tested." In case you guys missed my earlier post on this subject, I've included it below. BTW, I'm *not* advocating the approval of the true long coat for just the reasons Carolyn mentioned. Anyhow, here's what I wrote in that post... I wish the long stock coat would be accepted by our Standard and not considered a fault. I have owned both the true long coat, i.e. soft, silky outer coat & no undercoat and the long stock coat. The long stock coat is exactly like the standard coat - coarse outer coat with the typical undercoat. Only longer. My dog with the true long coat had skin problems. He was harder to dry, but the main problem was that silky outer coat. It seemed to pick up dust like one of those magnetic dust mops, and everything got tangled up in his coat. Burrs, leaves, twigs, you name it! Burrs were the worse because they had to be cut out. We live in the woods, so I don't ever want to own another true long coat. My long stock coat experienced none of these problems, and would have no trouble doing field work. Plus, a dog with a long stock coat is often *very* pleasing to the eye. Paulette McGuirt, GSDCA Member Allemande German Shepherd Dogs Qui Me Amat, Amat et Canem Meam ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Martello" <marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <gsdramey@xxxxxxx>; <grnram415@xxxxxxx>; <denwil2007@xxxxxxxxx>; <showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 2:04 PM Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: long coat revision to the standard by FV Everything is minor until you have a problem with it. <G> Try getting the velcro stickers or fox tails out of a silky coat when you've had it out herding or working in a field or in Search and Rescue dog in a disaster setting. Also try drying and getting out the snow balls that has frozen to the hair of an avalance dog. Let a blind person try to deal with any of it. Incorrect coats do not repel water but the harsh double coat will. Two shakes and they're almost dry....<G> It's all a fault for a reason is all I'm saying. It's a Standard for a working, herding, service dog. It's really NOT about personal taste. The only one I can't see a reason for other than appearances is the light eye........? I love our Standard and our Breed...... { :o) Carolyn marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx www.Marhaven.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Norma Ramey To: marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; grnram415@xxxxxxx ; denwil2007@xxxxxxxxx ; showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 6:01 AM Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: long coat revision to the standard by FV Carolyn has brought up some goodies - but - the differences (small IMHO) in the actual coat coarseness, fine silkiness, length, etc. really are minor differences. Like so many other things, individual tastes prevail anyway. I learned in studying an animal encyclopedia as as a young Whippersnapper that the Poodle coat & clips were important for what they originally did. (A German breed, BTW; hunt and retrieve)! The stickers & foxtails etc. would only adhere to the outer protective fur and not the dog as in a short coated one) Also, the thickness repelled the water easily. I feel more is better, but thatsa me and the fantastic undercoat of our GSDs truly IS an insulation to heat & cold times. Norma no L ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Martello" <marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <grnram415@xxxxxxx>; <denwil2007@xxxxxxxxx>; <showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 12:08 AM Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: long coat revision to the standard by FV It is a "fault".....no matter how awesome their structure...but so are soft coats & open coats. There are different types of long coats......but they are still "coats"......and they are all a problem when you live in the Country where there are stickers, fox tails, a lot of dirt, or out in the field herding and working. Even snow balls up on their coats and sticks. We've all had 'coats' that are really nice....but I wouldn't show one........too much effort just to get a good dog or a great dog shown without wasting time and money on a coated one. You can already show them at AKC shows as long as they are not trimmed. They are mentioned in our Standard........and considered a fault of the coat! <G>. Why change now? The GSDCA, Inc. doesn't decide what we can show or not show. If you have an AKC registered dog you can show it......it can even have disqualifying faults....( it's your entry fee to throw away ) you just will either lose or be disqualified. <G> I sure hope we don't start tinkering with our Standard to fit coat faults? We have a great Breed......and a great Breed Standard. Why would we want to start splitting it into varities of coats and colors and light eyes, and dark eyes, and blacks and sables etc. This is a working / herding breed and there is a definite reason a long coat is not desired. Though a beautiful Breed ( as long as we stay vigilant ) .our Standard addresses the best qualities for easy maintenance and all aspects of a working dog, service dog and a herding dog ( again, as long as we stay vigilant ) whether it is the coat, the feet or even the long saber tail for balance. JMO Carolyn marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx www.Marhaven.com ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org ============================================================================ **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) ------------------------------ Msg: #3 in digest From: "Carolyn Martello" <marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: Long Coat vs Dry Coat Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 22:30:11 -0700 I don't think the slick coat or dry type is looked upon badly so much as it just does not "accentuate the positive" for the dog. None of us want to show our dogs out of coat for just that reason.......same look......no beautiful accentuations. Same with a long coat.....it isn't that it's a serious fault according to the Standard, but catches the eye of the judge immediately. They don't even need to look for it.......it smacks them in the eye as the dog comes in the ring. For some judges it's a bi-color that affects them the same way....or a black or even sable....or a bad back. They see it as the dog is coming in the ring and if they don't like that........you just threw away an entry fee. <G> Now a missing tooth, or not good feet or a loose hock is often not picked up on until the individual exam.......and later in movement the dog can be so impressive in outline, and appearance and sidegait, etc. that the judge can "forget" what they and ring side cannot see easily every time it goes around the ring.................<G> Judges have to make decisions.....they don't have all the time in the world to think it over and compare over and over.......or contemplate whether to use it for breeding like we do when we have the dog in our yard and see things we like about it. They have a lot of things and a lot of dogs to think about and must make a decision. We all KNOW what we like about our dogs when we make a decision to enter them in a show.......but we cannot expect every judge to agree with OUR preference. <G> Now if you think about it.....normally we are all showing some very good dogs....thats why we drove hundreds of miles to show under a judge. I think I would not be happy if a judge put a long coat up for a major with all the quality animals being show with perfect coats..............JMO. Carolyn marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx www.Marhaven.com ----- Original Message ----- From: grnram415@xxxxxxx To: Showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 11:54 AM Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Long Coat vs Dry Coat Gosh, I never realized this thread would go so crazy.? Lots of good information and opinions.? So, I have another side to this.? Dry coats.? They seem to be faulted in the ring as well.? I know that folks do major grooming jobs on their dogs, getting them all fluffed up for the ring.? I have done this myself.? The only thing is they will stay fluffy for about 10 mins and be flat when they get in the ring.? That is not to say these dogs don't have undercoat.? They do and I can prove it when they blow coat and their runs look like they are covered in dog hair snow.? I can't believe how much coat they can blow. So, my question is this.? The Standard?states: "The outer coat should be as dense as possible."? Now, if the outer coat is very dense, then it SHOULD close up to protect the undercoat from wet and cold.? Yet, why is a dry coat looked at badly?? Or,?am I totally off base as to what a?true dry coat is?? And, if I am wrong, then I would appreciate some grooming advice on how to keep these dogs with great undercoats and short, dense outer coats, fluffy for more than 10 mins :-) Laura Thomas??? ------------------------------ Msg: #4 in digest From: Elsyd1@xxxxxxx Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 02:29:21 EDT Subject: Re: Worming Puppies are born with roundworm infestation...(90%, according to University of California Davis). At two weeks the roundworms start migrating. At 3 - 4 weeks they migrate to lungs,(pneumonia) stomach,(vomiting them up, inhaling them, pneumonia) eyes, (potential blindness) and other organs, before making their way back to the intestines. Recommended protocol is to worm with Pyrantal Pamoate at two weeks, and once a week thereafter until two months, and then every two weeks until 3 months old, when a natural immunity manifests itself. After that, once a month. Allowing puppies to go unwormed past two weeks is very dangerous, and is a frequent cause of roundworm pneumonia, which is usually fatal in puppies. A friend recently waited until 4 weeks to worm her pups, (Maltese), I told her to worm them immediately. They were FULL of huge roundworms, and these pups weighed like 3 lbs. She was lucky the worms had not killed them. I was advised at my first litter to worm at 4 weeks, and I lost two pups to roundworm pneumonia before they were ever wormed. Please, list, start worming your puppies at two weeks, and once a week thereafter. When puppies die for seemingly no reason, worms are sometimes the reason. Besides all the other horrors, starvation is also a very possible reason. Syd In a message dated 6/5/2008 9:56:19 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, Lacy340@xxxxxxx writes: when do you start worming pups. Mine are 4 weeks old and on Formula, Raw hamburger and rice cereal and a little water to wash it down. **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org ============================================================================ **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) ------------------------------ End of showgsd-l Digest V2 #1428 ******************************** **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) ------------------------------ Msg: #7 in digest From: XcaliburFarm@xxxxxxx Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 09:53:20 EDT Subject: Re: showgsd-l Digest V2 #1427 Sue, we live in an area where there have been cattle for years and since we have well water, there is a higher incidence of giardia as well coccidia. We deal with coccidia on a regular basis and yes, it is strange that the cocci shows up after the pups are free of other worms from the wormings. I now take a ziploc baggie, place my In a message dated 6/5/2008 11:16:52 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx writes: showgsd-l Digest Thu, 05 Jun 2008 Volume: 02 Issue: 1427 In This Issue: #1: From: Bubblebird6@xxxxxxx Subject: adult dog wanted to adopt #2: From: SallyHH31@xxxxxxx Subject: Re: Feeding puppies - weaning #3: From: Kate Syssoloff <rockannand@xxxxxxx> Subject: Re: Feeding puppies - weaning #4: From: Penny & Bill <Ketchy@xxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: feeding puppies #5: From: "Maureen" <murk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: Feeding puppies - weaning #6: From: "Maureen" <murk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: feeding puppies #7: From: "Maureen" <murk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Someone is having a Birthday #8: From: "Arcturus" <Arcturus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: ] Re: Feeding puppies - weaning now worming #9: From: Ams <shutter45@xxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: Someone is having a Birthday #10: From: Terry Cochran <fairway97045@xxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: ] Re: Feeding puppies - weaning now worming #11: From: DOGSRLUV@xxxxxxx Subject: Re: ] Re: Feeding puppies - weaning now worming #12: From: Pinehillgsds@xxxxxxx Subject: Re: Feeding puppies - weaning ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Msg: #1 in digest From: Bubblebird6@xxxxxxx Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 20:09:59 EDT Subject: adult dog wanted to adopt I know someone looking to adopt a adult GSD.....The dog must be kid proof and house trained.......He has grand kids 9 and 7, and his elderly mother lives with him too.....The dog would of course live inside and have a nice fenced in yard......He is willing to pay an adoption fee.....He has had GSD's and is familiar with the breed.......It would be a forever home.....He lives in NJ.....Please email me privately....Thank You....Debbie Muschio **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) ------------------------------ Msg: #2 in digest From: SallyHH31@xxxxxxx Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 20:33:15 EDT Subject: Re: Feeding puppies - weaning I never give my pups food til they are 2 weeks old. One week is to young I think. SallyHH **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) ------------------------------ Msg: #3 in digest Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2008 17:52:11 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) From: Kate Syssoloff <rockannand@xxxxxxx> Subject: Re: Feeding puppies - weaning Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable LuAnn, I don't feed puppies until they have molars at 21 days of age. Th= en, I soak Eagle Large Breed Puppy kibble in hot water and let it swell. Whe= n it's has cooled, I add canned puppy and a little dry milk powder for pupp= ies and serve. They have a tummy that is still immature, and it takes a coup= le of tries to get them going, but within 4 days, they are right in there an= d their stools are normal.=0D =0D Hamburger purchased from a food store may be contaminated, that's why we need to cook it to 170F. If you want to feed raw.... grinding up a steak yourself would be better. Just wash it before putting it in the grinder.= =0D =0D However, I prefer to provide babies with a balanced puppy food that is nutritional and proven.=0D =0D Best,=0D Kate=0D =EF=BB=BF =EF=BB=BF =EF=BB=BF =0D Kate Syssoloff - Rockannand GSD 1-604-826-9619=0D In Beautiful British Columbia, Canada=0D SEL INTEGRA~SEL PATENT~FV SOLEIL~BIM THE TANGO~EKO-LAN'S FORTUNE=0D http://www.rockannand.com (under construction)=0D http://members.shaw.ca/rockannand=0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: LuAnn Kennedy=0D Date: 6/5/2008 3:02:09 PM=0D To: showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=0D Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Feeding puppies - weaning=0D =0D A friend of mine has a litter of 11 GSD puppies. She was told by another breeder to start feeding some raw hamburger at around 8 days. I don't li= ke feeding raw to puppies that young. I don't want to overstep the other breeder's toes, but..............=0D Her puppies have the runs now and I told her to discontinue the hamburger= =2E=0D =0D I would like to get others opinions on what they feed puppies that young = or when they start weaning and what they feed?=0D =0D Thanks so much.=0D =0D LuAnn=0D =0D =0D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=0D POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the origi= nal author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND o= f the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.=0D =0D ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSL= Y FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL = BE PROSECUTED.=0D =0D For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx=0D =0D VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org=0D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=0D =20 ------------------------------ Msg: #4 in digest From: Penny & Bill <Ketchy@xxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: feeding puppies Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 20:58:09 -0400 My puppies are usually willing to be spoon fed before they're two weeks old. We mix raw hamburger, baby food (oatmeal with bananas is a perennial favorite) and warmed raw goat's milk. We do the spoon feeding thing for a week to 10 days and then they want to eat out of a dish--those pups love that mixture. The hard part is keeping the dam away from the gruel--Jeddie wanted to eat it herself last year! Penny ------------------------------ Msg: #5 in digest From: "Maureen" <murk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: Feeding puppies - weaning Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 20:29:09 -0500 I strat them about 3 weeks with a gruel of goats milk, yogurt, baby oatmeal, and baby lamb......thin at first and then thicken it. Mo >I never give my pups food til they are 2 weeks old. One week is to young I > think. > SallyHH ------------------------------ Msg: #6 in digest From: "Maureen" <murk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: feeding puppies Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 20:30:37 -0500 Penny, I make my goats milk plus in a shallow bowl and lay 2 pups at a time across my lap..........they go nuts! Mo > My puppies are usually willing to be spoon fed before they're two > weeks old. We mix raw hamburger, baby food (oatmeal with bananas is a > perennial favorite) and warmed raw goat's milk. We do the spoon > feeding thing for a week to 10 days and then they want to eat out of a > dish--those pups love that mixture. The hard part is keeping the dam > away from the gruel--Jeddie wanted to eat it herself last year! > Penny > ------------------------------ Msg: #7 in digest From: "Maureen" <murk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Someone is having a Birthday Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 20:44:01 -0500 My sweet daughter, Amy Murkland will be 38 tomorrow.....those wishing to send her B Day grettings ........shutter45@xxxxxxxxxx She is going to KILL me for this! Mo ------------------------------ Msg: #8 in digest From: "Arcturus" <Arcturus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: ] Re: Feeding puppies - weaning now worming Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 22:03:43 -0400 Wow! I guess I'm really late with my pups. I don't offer them food until 3 weeks and then its Triumph canned Beef with Chicken. They usually gobble it right down. By the end of the week I'm adding soften dry food to it. Now, they always have access to Mom's dry food and some will start mouthing it at 3 weeks. Before 3 weeks the Mom's have so much milk I doubt the puppies would eat anything anyway. On to worming...does anyone treat for coccidia or giardia as a matter of course? We do, at 6 weeks. Where I live there are so many chicken houses that both are literally in the air. Penn State Unv. did a study on both as it effects the chicken industry and they were amazed to find it ( as well as e-coli) in rain water. Sue T ------------------------------ Msg: #9 in digest Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 19:04:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Ams <shutter45@xxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: Someone is having a Birthday got that right. turn about is fair play too ams Maureen wrote: > My sweet daughter, Amy Murkland will be 38 tomorrow.....those wishing to send her B Day grettings ........shutter45@xxxxxxxxxx She is going to KILL me for this! Mo > ============================================================================ > POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. > ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. > For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx > VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org > ============================================================================ ------------------------------ Msg: #10 in digest Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 19:27:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Terry Cochran <fairway97045@xxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: ] Re: Feeding puppies - weaning now worming I'm with you on this one. What is the point of feeding them earlier mom has the perfect food for the babies .l If mom doesn't have enough them goat milk is a great supplement. TC Arcturus <Arcturus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: Wow! I guess I'm really late with my pups. I don't offer them food until 3 weeks and then its Triumph canned Beef with Chicken. They usually gobble it right down. By the end of the week I'm adding soften dry food to it. Now, they always have access to Mom's dry food and some will start mouthing it at 3 weeks. Before 3 weeks the Mom's have so much milk I doubt the puppies would eat anything anyway. On to worming...does anyone treat for coccidia or giardia as a matter of course? We do, at 6 weeks. Where I live there are so many chicken houses that both are literally in the air. Penn State Unv. did a study on both as it effects the chicken industry and they were amazed to find it ( as well as e-coli) in rain water. Sue T ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org ============================================================================ ------------------------------ Msg: #11 in digest From: DOGSRLUV@xxxxxxx Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 22:56:24 EDT Subject: Re: ] Re: Feeding puppies - weaning now worming In a message dated 6/5/2008 7:23:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Arcturus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx writes: On to worming...does anyone treat for coccidia or giardia as a matter of course? We do, at 6 weeks. I don't generally. If they get loose stools after worming then I do . I had a bitch years ago that everyone of her pups had a ton of worms and once wormed they seemed to pick up coci? Those I treated automatically& after the first litter. Deb **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) ------------------------------ Msg: #12 in digest From: Pinehillgsds@xxxxxxx Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 22:56:24 EDT Subject: Re: Feeding puppies - weaning I 100% agree. Kathy, member GSDCA, DVGSDC Celebrating generations of Dual Titled TC'd Champions visit www.geocities.com/pinehillgsds In a message dated 6/5/2008 6:44:15 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, DOGSRLUV@xxxxxxx writes: I think 8 days is way to young. **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) ------------------------------ End of showgsd-l Digest V2 #1427 ******************************** **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) ------------------------------ End of showgsd-l Digest V2 #1430 ******************************** ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org ============================================================================