[ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Toxic Gut Syndrome SIGNS/SYMPTOMS
- From: Scharo777@xxxxxxx
- To: shadowland22000@xxxxxxxxx, WyMarGSD2@xxxxxxx, terrycochran97756@xxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 15:14:19 -0400 (EDT)
I am a little late on this, but my first mentors on OFA were Pat &
Scootie. They told us to aid for 3 generations of OFA - then 5. Once you get
to
three, you find that most of the litter mates you produce all OFA - both
ends. Almost all of Caralon's Olympus Fire's progeny were OFA'd. (at least
10) Only 1 bitch did not get an OFA Hip number - and that was for one bad
hip - after normal pre-lims. (A good reason to send you Pre Lims to OFA )
So we believe that she injured that hip somewhere. She is producing
normal puppies today
and only one bitch had one abnormal elbow.
Not too bad.
Carol
In a message dated 9/30/2012 5:02:16 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
shadowland22000@xxxxxxxxx writes:
One of our MAJOR problems is the dogs you use may be OFA good or
excellent, but what of their littermates!! therein may be your problem.
Morgan Lewis, RPh.
Member GSDCA
President Last Hope of Georgia 501c3
"So Much to Do, So Little Time"
From: "WyMarGSD2@xxxxxxx" <WyMarGSD2@xxxxxxx>
To: terrycochran97756@xxxxxxxxx
Cc: showgsd@xxxxxxx; wynsum@xxxxxxx; showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 2:59 PM
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Toxic Gut Syndrome SIGNS/SYMPTOMS
good genetics :)
and when we have no idea about what the genetic geenie is going to bring,
we feed top shelf kibble to do what we think will help in the GOD FORBID
event the dogs are genetically prone to some terrible GI issue
its same thing with hips and elbows, just because a dog has its A stamp or
OFA and passes doesn't mean shit for genetics.. cuz how many dogs are
produced from OFA excellent parents that end up with HD... and vice
versa...BUT
we MUST certify our dogs with the A stamp or OFA or on the very least
xray
with good picture, before breeding to DO THE RIGHT THING... at least we
are trying to do the right thing by getting a our dogs proven with a
title
or championship etc... on top of breeding known healthy bloodlines...
and
feeding them the best and providing supplements to keep our dogs healthy
:)
In a message dated 9/30/2012 1:32:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
terrycochran97756@xxxxxxxxx writes:
What I want to know is if dry food is so bad then why do my dogs live to
be 13 on the average. In 20 years of breeding I have never had one case
of
bloat or torsion. Never had toxic gut. I run them every day at least 2
miles. I have cut Margo back to 1.2 miles because she is going on 14 in
Jan.
My guess is that it is genetic I I lucked out.
Sent from my iPad
On Sep 30, 2012, at 9:50 AM, WyMarGSD2@xxxxxxx wrote:
> Kay there are absolutely no signs and symptoms where it would make a
> difference to save the dog,
> in time :(
>
> The only thing i can share with anyone is the following, i took my
Wyatt
> Earp whose sire bloodline did go back to a HX of GI issues, on a trip
from CT
> to NH and he would throw up in the car and did have weak nerves (later
in
> life as i progressed my experience with animal behavior, i learned all
> about weak nerves and car rides) anyway... this male was 15 months
old... he
> did not have a good appetite, i was feeding him Eukanuba (YUCK!!!
didn't
> know any better wasn't educated in bacterias and dog foods and GI
issue
> etc... and i bet if i was feeding a good food with the natural pre
and
pro
> biotics he would be alive)
>
> well a day before we left, we had the Rabies vaccine and about week
before
> that we did DHPP and i was taught to wait 2 weeks but i did it 5 days a
> part i didn't know :(
>
> so me and my Wyatt drove home and he got sick in the car, 4 hr trip,
> normal, threw up bile, cuz i didn't feed him on the way home so he
wouldn't
> vomit his food.. it was late.. i drove to my work to let them know i
was
> back...after midnight, he threw up bile in the car when were stopped,
this
> wasn't normal to throw up already home... he was fine local
driving..
i
> went home... we fell asleep... but how many of us take a dog to the
ER when
> a dog vomits one when acting totally normal, and no other issues?
>
> about 7 am there was a dark tarry foul smelly stool in the middle of
the
> living room and he NEVER went to the bathroom in the house... i was
> mortified.. as he was acting like an old man.. and didn't seem right...
> (keep in mind, right now its already too late to help the animal...
whether
> u thought it was TGS or not.. its already too late because the dark
tarry
> stool is necroted intestines :(
>
> i called my breeder and she said to get him to the vet asap, so i drive
to
> the vet down the street and his gums were normal, and thought maybe he
had
> a stomach ache i told her about the stool and vomit she said
just
> leave him be.. because he was pacing back and forth and couldn't get
> comfortable... its difficult to write this even this long ago :( she
sent me home...
>
> few hrs later, i went upstairs and he tried to follow me and he
> collapsed.. i decided to go to the emergency clinic and picked up that
dog like he
> was 5lbs and put him on the front seat so i could watch him and pet him
and
> tell him it was ok... he was soooo weak and so sad.. we got to the ER
in 7
> minutes and i told them what happeend they took him into xray incase
maybe
> he ate something or had a blockage.. this was about 11am or 12pm
they
> started an IV and asked me to go home and relax and finally i left but
an
> hour later i called and they said they may need to go in and do
surgery.. so
> ran back and i got there and my sister met me there and my mother was
on her
> way... couldn't understand what the heck is going on a normally
healthy
dog
> just collapses.. so young too... i asked if i could go in and he had
> vomited blood and i just wanted to see him he was in the crate and i
layed on
> the floor in there and this poor weak sweet animal took all his
strength
to
> lick my face... omg so terrible.. then about 1pm or so i will never
> forget it.. me and my sister were in the waiting area and two
hospital
cats
> came out and sat with us one jumped on me and i kept shushing it away
because
> iw as soooo upset about my Wyatt, but after we knew why... a few
minutes
> later the Dr came out and said Wyatt had passed... the kitties were
telling
> us... he was ok and not suffering anymore :(
>
> long story short.. after nearly losing my mind, the vet was curious
about
> this she had never seen this before.. where a dogs intestines had
necroted
> and asked if she can do a necropsy.. i said sure if it can help the
next
> family...
>
> soooo what we found out later, after telling my breeder and doing
> research it was Toxic Gut Syndrome which is the overgrowth of
Chlostridium a
> normal bacteria, which Wyatt could have had a congenital defect in his
> intestines, and a pocket where the bacteria went haywire and due to the
stress of
> the car ride, the low immunity from the rabies vaccine mixed with
pancrease
> issues perhaps not known but if i think about it.. he had a poor
> appetite..but had normal stools... that's what brought forth his
demise :(
>
> signs and symptoms ABSOLUTELY NOTHING unusual where its treatable.
> Dr. Kruger told me that even if i took him to the vet at 7am and they
> went in the damage was already done... going to bed he was fine...
so if
> it happened in the day time... no... still would not happen...
>
> the only preventative measures i feel would help is feeding your dogs a
> good kibble that has all those good bacterias in it, using dr krugers
> supplement (if you know the bloodline has a history of GI issues,
bloat, torsion,
> TGS) i used to use Wellness supplement but they dont make it
anymore...
>
> its ignorant if you think its NOT genetics IT IS GENETICS... TGS just
> doesn't happen out of nowhere, something in the bloodline that is
passed
down
> from generation to generation is causing this.. just like it is for
Bloat
> and Torsion... a dog that is not predisposed to Bloat or Torsion or
TGS is
> NOT going to have it... doesn't mean every single animal who comes from
a
> bloodline who produces is IS going to die of those diseases... but keep
it
> in mind when breeding or owning a dog that goes back to any animal who
> bloats or has torsion or TGS...
>
> After Wyatt died i was neuortic about not feeding huge amounts of water
> after eating, about kibbles that swell and all that other craziness...
> keeping dogs in crates after eating so they dont bloat.. omg i was
sooo neurotic
> cuz i didn't want anything to happen... after many talks with
Barbara
> Williams i let go.. and what i did was breed dogs who did not go
back
to
> lines that had GI issues... i still do feed my dogs good foods, like
Taste of
> the Wild or Earthborn, i have been feeding top shelf foods since 2000
and
> costs me more but its worth every dime!!!
>
> Kay i hope this helps!!
>
> Dawnmarie
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 9/29/2012 1:32:31 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> showgsd@xxxxxxx writes:
> Are there signs that a dog is suffering from toxic gut or is it
> determined after the dog has died? I remember hearing a lot about it
> in the 80s but not much about it now.....until these posts were on the
> list.
>
> Kay Springer
> www.showboatgsd.com
> Home of Multi BISS & Multi Group Winning
> GCh. Rohan's Reward TC,CGC,HT,RE,CDX,CHIC (h,e,h,t) DM Normal
> "Strider" 80 BOBs #5 & #6 GSD 2009
>
>
> On Sep 29, 2012, at 7:58 AM, Doc Zoe wrote:
>
>> GSDs have a lower level of pancreatic enzyme function to begin with
>>
>> There is research that shows that toxic gut is related to low
>> immunity or immune dysfunction which is hereditary. Hence toxic gut
>> is probably
>> genetic" as it results from another genetic dysfunction. Right now,
>> it is considered "familial".
>>
>> The immune problem creates an over growth of NORMAL intestinal
>> bacteria. Toxic gut happens when the walls of the intestines become
>> compromised due to bacterial overgrowth. Couple the immune
>> dysfunction withthe fact that our breed has lower levels of
>> pancreatic enzymes,
>> and you end up with another problem - toxic gut.
>>
>> Some say probiotics (yogart with live culture) can be preventative
>>
>>
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POST is Copyrighted 2011. All material remains the property of the
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FORWARDS of
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of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
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OST is Copyrighted 2011. All material remains the property of the
original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of
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the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group
and its administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions
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MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS
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is Copyrighted 2011. All material remains the property of the
original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of
any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of
the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group
and its administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions
expressed in any post.
ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY
MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS
PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY
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author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind
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Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its
administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in
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