This old argument has gone on for years and always leaves behind many hurt feelings among our German Shepherd lovers. It is time for all to reflect that many of the top so called specialty judges also do AB shows. I should know since all my Champions have both major and minor points from them. Am I ashamed of my Champions. Like h---!! I remeber when Torrey won the Pacific Coast Championship trophy that the San Diego Club gives every year. Dave Renke was the judge and I remember the silence when he won after all as one voice was heard saying" he's an AB Champion" Well I will still match my Torrey and his brothers and sisters and their offspring against anything in Specialties. I learned very early in the game that those shows were not always on the up and up. Not because my dogs did not win but because of what the ringside was so freely saying. Boy am I glad I am retired from showing and breeding. We are never going to bring new blood in as long as we continue to have these demeaning discussions. Other breed people always questioned why our people never stayed around for groups like they did. Makes you wonder doesn't it. We are supposed to love the breed...all of them and all of us. Marie K. Hicks Hightor German Shepherds Acton, CA www.geocities.com/hightorgsd ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2005. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org ============================================================================