I think the Stud is also the variable in the equation, the bitch is usually stable. A lot of people only have 1 or 2 bitches to breed, so that is what they are working with. Rather than clarifying, "when I bred my so and so bitch to "x", together they produced....." Its easier to say "I got bad elbows when I bred to "x"." Or I had no problems when I bred to "Y". Odds are your experience was with the same bitch... it was just the stud that changed. Though it does take two to tango..... people can control what stud they use easier than what bitch they use. Sean InquestGSD@xxxxxxx wrote: Why is the Stud Dog always to blame?? There are 2 parents! Dawn You are right Dawn. It takes two. However, you don't see many ads for "bitches" services, you do for "stud services". I have always believed that if you shipped your bitch to be bred to a dog, the stud owner should be listed as a breeder, since they are doing the work. And if the bitch owner can't be bothered to whelp the litter, they should not be listed as breeders either. I know, sometimes things happen, but I am not talking about those times. I am talking about those who do these things as the norm. In a perfect world, the stud owner knows the bitches pedigree, and both the stud and bitch owner have had time to sit down, look at the pedigrees, prior progeny, or siblings if a maiden bitch/ novice dog. Look at these facts before making a decision to breed these 2 dogs. What we see is agents taking dogs here and there, if the intended dog doesn't want to breed the bitch, then she is breed to a second or third option dog. Now what? The funny part is sometimes the second and third option dogs end up being the better choice....poetic justice you say? No. Getting lucky. Now, isn't it a sad day when we have to admit that we just "Got Lucky on that breeding"? But I digress......the truth is that Stud dogs dominate in the breeding world, they get listed first in the pedigree and draw the most attention. And until people realize just how important bitches are in the breeding program, people will keep breeding to the dog that is going to make sure the pups get sold. Or noticed. Sad but true. Ileana ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2005. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org ============================================================================ --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2005. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org ============================================================================