I believes she means when looking at a shoulder Bladre ( < ), the arm should extend out (opening / ). The lower shoulder blade, should not be vertical ( I ) but extending with the dogs arm out in front. Ideally the dog's feet are close to the ground at all times. Many dogs in my opinion give the illussion of reach, but if you look at the point of extension the lower shoulder does not move out in front, but stays vertical. This is incorrect in my opinion. Many times the dog is reaching using its elbow, not his/her shoulder. But people scream and clap anyhow since some belivee they are seeing excellent reach. But if you video the dogs and slow it down you will see their reach is often further then where their feet actually touch the ground. ie. lifting, incorrect shoulder, an illusion SoilentGrn@xxxxxxx wrote: From: Peggy Can you please explain " The elbow moves forward beyond the vertical." The vertical of what? Do you mean beyond the vertical of the point of the shoulder? Lissa Ann Marie www.geocities.com/amarigermanshepherds/Puppies.html Home of CH Fairway's Leah v Nadelwald TC OFA and her daughter R/Best In Futurity CH Amari's Ava Gardner OFA and in the wings Leah's new daughter Amari's Beware of Foxy Roxy Breeder/Owner ofAmari's Bandit of Broadcreek (5pts. 2/BOB @ 6 months) --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2005. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org ============================================================================