interesting post, morgan. yes, it is imperative that we all do our best at eradicating the problems that plague our dogs; i doubt that anyone would disagree with that. however, if you were a seasoned breeder/exhibitor you would understand that, while no perfect dog has yet to be born, most breeders DO study their lines and what is behind them. we are aware of backmassing in our pedigrees because we have bred 6 or more generations from a foundation bitch, each generation, hopefully, better and healthier than the last. we can neither erase the past nor predict the future. instead, we use knowledge, experience and advanced means of testing for genetic problems to produce the best dogs we can. sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. it is one thing to be a breeder and another to talk about breeders. granted, we have many people involved in GSDs today who call themselves breeders but are not. anyone can put 2 animals together and create offspring; not everyone can do so with a foundation of knowledge. it is easy to talk the talk. it's not so easy to walk the walk and to assume that "testing", (and a spreadsheet of results), is the answer to all our problems is naive at best. diane ===================================================== Morgan Lewis wrote: Subj: [ SHOWGSD-L ] What we try to do Evan is correct. "There is no perfect dog" BUT there is a better way of breeding. That would include a pedigree data base which includes OFA, OVC Pen Hip, Thyroid, Cardiac and TLI. It would include DOB and DOD, cause of death. health problems (confirmed by VET). Co efficients in pedigree. The problem is failure to know what the rest of the litter is like. If I have a Champion that I am breeding, his genetics are not just what the Sire and Dam contribute to the dog, but whatever the genetic makup is of those dogs littermate and the generations before. In many cases these diseases have been masked (great breeding) til the devil pops up) We will never remove these health problems, but we can minimize them, through honesty and knowledge. Unfortunately we have a problem with both, and it is not just in this breed. I am willing to bet that given a pedigree, most of the old timers could tell you the physical strengths and weaknesses of a proposed litter, and temperament; but could they or would they tell you of health concerns?? We all know of certain lines carrying Mega, DM, IBD and EPI etc. I think we honestly try to avoid in-line breeding on those lines; but some does occur. Now we are seeing huge numbers of GSD affected by various Cancers. We KNOW that the GSD is predisposed to Immune problems, We know that over vaccination is a major contributor to immune problems. I never worry about hearing of a GSD dying @ 12-14 from ANY disease, hell we are all going to die from something) but when I see young dogs dying or getting life long illnesses, I become very concerned . We as breeders need to communicate with our PET BUYERS, informing them of the necessity of testing, especially OFA, thyroid and TLI; hell charge up front the cost of the test and refund when they are done. This is for their protection and the continuation of breeding healthy GSD. Whether you are a breeder of SHOW DOGS, WORKING DOGS or just plain PETS; the MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR is HEALTH - or else there are NO DOGS Morgan Lewis, RPh.Member GSDCAPresident Last Hope of Georgia 501c3"So Much to Do, So Little Time" Diane Silver-Strasser Silstra German Shepherds _Skatiebug'z_ (http://skatiebugz.shutterfly.com/) The online store for everything German Shepherd and then some! _http://skatiebugz.blogspot.com_ (http://skatiebugz.blogspot.com/) Skater's Blog ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2012. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in any post. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org SUBSCRIPTION:http://showgsd.org/mail.html NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================