[ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Entry Count - WHY?
- From: Bedkar <bedkar@xxxxx>
- To: hickoryhillgsd1@xxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 18:26:09 -0400 (EDT)
AMEN, Christine.
As a breeder judge of GSD, I must remember that I am an AB judge for the other
breeds
I am approved to judge. I am obligated to thoroughly know those breeds.
Two years ago, when I was still provisional in Golden Ret., I had the pleasure
of judging
an entry of 60+ ..... I ended up placing a 12-18 month male WD and BOB over 13
specials.
This past weekend, I had the pleasure of watching him go BOB in a specialty of
137 GR and
on Saturday, I watched him go Best in Show. This applies in reverse. There
are AB judges
that are very serious about their obligation to every breed they judge and that
includes
GSD....and I am as proud of winning under them as any breeder judge.
Kay
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hickoryhill" <hickoryhillgsd1@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: barbara17236@xxxxxxx, Showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2014 9:25:30 AM
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Entry Count - WHY?
The GSD is still popular, just not in the conformation ring. The problem is not
the judging, rings, etc. it is the PEOPLE. In fighting
litigation, arrogance, manipulation of the breed by a handful for profit, an
inability to create an illustrated breed standard with
donated funds( which is now long gone) , an unwillingness to accept new people
who aren't connected to the "old" people,
an attitude that at specialty shows behavior that is deemed unacceptable at
every other show, is acceptable at our shows,
questionable business practices by breeders and handlers and a lack of
accountability for those practices, etc, etc. I could on
ad nauseum, ad infinitum. As long as everyone keeps looking to assign blame
everywhere else be where blame should be
assigned it ain't gonna get better. As for ring size..ever watch an Afghan
hound move? Even a good Cocker can cover some
ground. I have currently seen breeds that can out move what we are showing in
GSD's so the notion that we have a corner
on the market in movement is a fiction and is exactly the arrogance I was
referring to above!As for judging..how is it different? Finding
a good one should be the same in every breed that is judged. It is a matter of
pride and as a judge I think you would want to
demonstrate to the fancy that you have knowledge of not only your own breed,
but in finding quality in others as well. I read
a post by someone who stated that GSd people should attend more all-breed
shows. Those are wise words. I learned the
most about grooming and structure by not only watching GSD's but by watching
other breeds and trying to evaluate and find
the best ones in other breeds as well. Christine
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 3/31/14, Carolyn Martello <marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Entry Count - WHY?
To: hickoryhillgsd1@xxxxxxxxxxxx, barbara17236@xxxxxxx, Showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Monday, March 31, 2014, 12:16 AM
I don't claim to know anything about
Labs...that is why I was
asking...but I figured there must be a difference between
the
"working" or "field" Labs and pure show dogs.
Typically that
is the case in every working Breed.
That is pretty much what I was saying...that the 'divisions'
within a Breed IS part of the problem?
Here in Calif. we often see many of the same people at our
GSD
Specialty shows and some All Breeds. Most
are just glad
to be there, to see each other to see new puppies, and to
see
the competing animals and just enjoy a show.
Are we all always happy with the winners? Of course
not. <G>
Is there often a difference in the winners between All
Breeds
and Specialties? Of course...but there is also a
difference
in the judges, the judging, and the rings.
I am not assigning any blame to anything....but I STILL
don't
think we can compare other Breeds or Breed show entries to
our
GSD and expect to come up with the same problems or some
magic
reason for the "rise and fall" of a Breeds popularity
and the
size of their shows compared to our Breed. I believe
there are
different issues and problems with each Breed.
For a while our shows were so big, Clubs had such huge
entries
they had to call in a second Judge once the entries were in,
as
they were OVER what AKC allowed for one Judge. CLASSES
were as
big as one side is now.
Then all these Specialty Clubs started having two
Specialties a
year...AND... there were a LOT of Clubs. It became easier to
finish
a GSD....as there is now a couple more shows within a couple
of
weeks if we miss some. With that..entries
started to drop.
I also think that now the popularity of shows is fading
away. It
just is not a major interest of young people and families
that do
acquire a purebred dog.
I do not think ANYTHING or ANYONE or any BREED is to blame.
Carolyn marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.marhaven.com
-----Original Message-----
From: On Behalf Of Hickoryhill
Carolyn, with all due respect I disagree. labs have a MAJOR
split within the
breed. perhaps you may not see it as much in your area, but
duck and goose
hunting is huge in our area and in much of the mid west,
south, south east,
north and eastern parts of the US. the field lab is leggy
and other than a
few basic traits, doesn't really look anything like a
conformation lab.
Hunters don't adhere to color guidelines for breeding their
dogs, the only
thing that matters is a dogs ability to hunt. As for
specialty shows,they
don't need as many as we do, as there is not a split within
their breed
between all-breed and specialty. When I suggested our breed
was divided the
other day into factions, I completely forgot the 3rd faction
splintering our
breed, ie all-breed vs specialty! The labs that are shown at
the national
and win, win at their specialties and at all-breeds.This
goes for class dogs
as well Specials. there is none of this "Well he can't win
at specialties,
but he could finish at all-breeds."
As a matter of fact our breed is the ONLY breed that has a
division not
only between working animals, but within conformation
animals! yes, there
are handlers in their breed, However there is a price
difference for
handling.
Many all-breed handlers don't charge for their food( one
told me that we
would eat if we were at home so how can we charge the
client?") and their
class rates are cheaper. Many, not all of GSD that have a
working a SchH
title can be,too much animal for a family or first time GSD
owner. I used
that possibility in marketing my companion puppies. It was
successful.BTW,
in my area, I know of one kennel that breeds every color of
lab possible.
There are silver ones,
"red fox" labs you name it, they have it. The kennel
dupes the public into
believing they are "rare" colors. Again, one can try to
assign blame to all
types of peripheral reason for failure, but when you
have 3 divisions
within the breed, each one working against the other, each
one believing
what they have is the best, how can you expect to
thrive???Christine
--------------------------------------------
,Carolyn Martello <marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Entry Count - Seems good
to me WHY?
To: barbara17236@xxxxxxx,
Showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
I don't think we can really address why entries in our
shows
are failing by comparing our Breed entries to "other
Breed"
entries??
.....I'm just wondering....
Do Labradors have as many Specialty shows in one State as
GSD do? Do Labradors have a German Bred/ American
Bred schism in
their Breed?
Do they have more Owner/ handlers than our GSD do?
CAN they have more Owner/ Handlers than our GSD do because
of length of stride? ( Maybe even I could show a
Lab.... <G> )
Do they have many 'off color' breeders that splits the
Breed?
( Because they ARE 'off colors'..they of course do not
support our
AKC point show entries? )
I tend to think that Labradors DO probably have the
"working" dog "show" dog split to some degree...probably
not to the
extent that GSD do? Many of our GSD SHOW
Champions have
Obedience, and Rally and Herding titles but not the
SchH titles
...I'm just sayin..
Carolyn marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.marhaven.com
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of barbara17236@xxxxxxx
Subject: Entry Count - Seems good to me WHY?
The entry counts for the Labrador Retriever Club of
Potomac
Specialty
(Frederick, Maryland) (not a national show) are as
follows:
ENTRY BREED / BREAKDOWN
3 Junior Showmanship Competition
327 Retrievers (Labrador) SWEEPS 127-200(0-0)0
51 Retrievers (Labrador) VET SWEEPS 25-26(0-0)0
456 Retrievers (Labrador) BITCHES 0-417(0-0)39
301 Retrievers (Labrador) DOGS 260-0(0-0)41
133 Retrievers (Labrador) B.O.B. 0-0(79-40)14
I am posting these because there has been s much
discussion
as to why show
entries
are down. However, once again, this Labrador Club
brings in the entries.
If they
can do it, why can't other clubs? And, this
is only a Specialty show.
They don;t even get close to these numbers at the National
Show.
So, what makes this particular breed club so different
from
all others?
Judges? Club members? Location? Fun events and get
together's all week
long? Something for everyone?
Just some food for thought.
Barb Hively - PA
DNA. It's what makes a white, a German Shepherd
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POST is Copyrighted 2014. All material remains the
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Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her
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ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION
OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON
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POST is Copyrighted 2014. All material remains the property of the original
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Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its
administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in
any post.
ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY
MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS
PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY
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--
-Kay Reamensnyder and Betty Doerpinghaus
-Home of Bedkar German Shepherds
-AKC Breeders of Merit
- bedkar@xxxxx
-Visit our Website: www.bedkargsd.com
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author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind
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Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its
administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in
any post.
ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY
MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS
PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY
FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE
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For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx
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