[ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Chest, depth, gut & root...<G>

  • From: MORGAN LEWIS <shadowland22000@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2011 11:14:15 -0800 (PST)

I also prefer the DEEP CHEST, and have never had a problem. Our biggest problem 
is that NOONE wants to Genetically Test for a MARKER. Sorry folks for there is 
just NO MONEY in that type of RESEARCH; it doesn't effect HUMANS. What little 
research that has been done, has not identified ANY MARKER.
That Said, if ANY of you that sent SWABS to Dr Froman, have this CONDITION 
OCCUR; please contact her or me. Also don't forget, she still needs BLOOD and 
TISSUE samples of any GSD that comes down with  CANCER.   
 

  
Morgan  Lewis, RPh.
Member GSDCA
Board Member Canine Pet  Rescue
http://www.caninepetrescue.com/
"So Much to Do, So Little Time"




________________________________
From: Carolyn Martello <marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: shadowland22000@xxxxxxxxx; Scharo777@xxxxxxx; showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; 
Bokenkampgsd1@xxxxxxx
Sent: Sun, January 2, 2011 1:47:27 PM
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Chest, depth, gut & root...<G>

Well that puts me in a heap of trouble because I prefer a deep chested dog!!  
<G>
I know the Vet's say that.....but I personally don't think the chest 
conformation of a Great Dane 

is anything like a German Shepherd Dog and I don't consider them especially 
"deep"  

chested.........??  I would consider an Irish Setter or any Setter  to have 
ribbing more like our
GSD....and they are never listed in  "the group"
If I were looking at a "Conformation problem".......I would be more concerned 
about the loose
gut on some of our GSD.  Sometimes we are so concerned about tuck up....that I 
wonder if we 

have not developed weak stomach muscles....and I would worry about long 
loins....and,  and.....
<G>
I also think we should really look at the strength and length of the 
mesenteric  
root.......more than
the depth of chest......but I'm no Vet......just an observer of basic 
conformation.

Carolyn    marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.Marhaven.com


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: MORGAN LEWIS To: marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; Scharo777@xxxxxxx ; 
showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ;
  Bokenkampgsd1@xxxxxxx 
  Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2011 9:14 AM Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: What is 
going on?


  Or to complicate the issue even more, how about THIS STATEMENT " It is 
  frequently reported that deep-chested dogs, such as German Shepherds, Great 
  Danes, and Dobermans are particularly at risk" So IT IS NOT JUST OUR BREED or 
  GENETICS. 

  Morgan Lewis, RPh.
  Member GSDCA
  Board Member Canine Pet Rescue
  http://www.caninepetrescue.com/
  "So Much to Do, So Little Time"




  ________________________________
  From: Carolyn Martello <marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  To: Scharo777@xxxxxxx; showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; Bokenkampgsd1@xxxxxxx; 
  ketchy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
  Sent: Sun, January 2, 2011 12:02:31 PM
  Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: What is going on?

  I would like to take this a tad further. Can anyone show me an American Bred 
  dog that is not
  related to some lines in all American Bred dog pedigrees?
  For that matter......can anyone find a European dog that has no common 
ancestry 

  to other
  European dogs?? 
  Or do working dogs and German dogs never bloat....only our American show dogs?
  Unless you've had a lot of bloat to see consistancy and constantly the same 
dog 

  or lines in all 

  bloat....how would you know beyond a doubt it is hereditary? Are we saying 
  all GSD's that bloat 

  go back to a specific dog or line that is the root of the problem? Seems to 
  me If that were the 

  case it would be pretty easy to eliminate as we would know by now where it is 
  coming from. 

  So if you had two dogs bloat and your neighbor has two dogs that bloat 
  also...and you researched 

  their lineage together......WHICH dog in the pedigree might they pick out to 
be 

  the cause of bloat 

  in THEIR dogs.....or.....if the generations you both studied had no common 
dog 

  or line to each 

  other....how would you each decide which line or dog is the genetic cause in 
the 

  four that bloated?
  In the end......we know we're going to "meet at the Y" sooner or later in 
every 

  American Bred
  pedigree.......and I'm sure it is no different in other Countries......or are 
we 

  saying dogs from Italian
  or Czek lines don't bloat because the dog in OUR bloating dog's pedigree is 
not 

  there?
  I guess what I'm thinking is.......IF you feel you've pinpointed a line or 
dog 

  that is the problem in your
  opinion......how would you pick out another line or dog to start over with?? 
  When you do.......you 

  must know...... that again......you will "meet at the Y" in the pedigree 
sooner 

  or later. <G>
  Also......IF it is hereditary........how does a raw diet help..........?

  I'm inclined to think we should look at everything....... from diet, to life 
  style, pedigree, stress, shots 

  and environment and even age....as well as the inheritance factor. It's the 
  only way to really study 

  the possibilities. I'm also inclined to think it if were hereditary to the 
  point of being able to pinpoint
  it to "a" dog or "a" line...it would be pretty simple to eliminate. I'm 
ALWAYS 

  hearing "stay away 

  from that line" because of bloat....and yet there are many many more dogs 
from 

  "that line" that do 

  not bloat than those that do? 
  Who knows how many we DON'T hear about in a less popular well known line??
  Consider some of our 'human' problems. What about the sudden onslaught of 
A.D.D 

  or Autism in
  our children? If those problems were in our dogs.....would we call it 
  hereditary or would we look at 

  ALL possibilities? 
  OR....maybe it is like Carol's vehicles.....just the luck of the 
draw.......<G> 

  ( Never trust a V.W. ) <G>



  Carolyn marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
  www.Marhaven.com



  ----- Original Message ----- From: Scharo777@xxxxxxx 
  This is not to make light of the bloat situation in any way:In the last two 
  weeks, four cars that live 

  on our 30 acres have had their alternators fail. All vehicles were made by 
  different companies 

  and were of different ages from 3 years to 8 years. None had ever had a 
  problem before. 

  Daughter Cathy thought this was spooky and was asking if there could be 
  anything causing this like "strange emissions" from radio or microwave towers 
  or from high power lines. I just attributed it to end of the year bad luck. 
  Carol


  *********************************************************************

  In all my years in Canada, I had 1 dog bloat back in 74, and she started to 
  vomit, expelled the gas, the 

  stomach never torsioned, and she was fine. 
  We were just moments from the vet when she was back to herself.

  Since coming to Texas, I noticed a high incidence in the state with others 
  breeders, along with my own
  dogs, many having come from Canada, except for 1 line I have that never seem 
to 

  be affected.

  One dog that John had came from a high incidence background of bloat that all 
  of his siblings had bloated 

  or torsioned and died before 6 years of age. I decided to give him pepto 
  bismal daily 1 hour before meals 

  just to settle his gut............he lived to 11 1/2 then bloated and we lost 
  him. 


  Another male bloated while a blasting company was close.......the earth 
shaking 

  was too much for him. 

  He had surgery at almost 10 and lived for 2 1/2 years. I soaked his food well 
  so nothing would expand
  in his gut. 
  Another bloated a few years ago at 7, had surgery, got tacked. He stressed 
with 

  my being gone for 

  medical treatment, but his mom, older brothers had all have bloat 
  incidence....with 1 of them passing 

  at 10 months old. This boy get's no grains and I do a sulpha flush every 3 
  months. He has been 

  good for 2 1 /2 years. 
  Is there anything specific and common to all....don't know other than 
history. 

  A long time friend/dane breeder who had many suffer bloat and torsion had 
many 

  golden rules.......never
  feed 1 large meal daily, divide in 2 and take the stress off the gut. Never 
  let your dogs drink a lot of 

  water after eating, or get involved in vigorous exercise. Avoid stressful 
  situations. 

  Does it help, maybe. I do them all anyway just in case. 
  But taking all the precautions and preventions into consideration, there are 
no 

  rule's that say they will work. 

  If we could discover that.....neither the dog nor any of us would suffer 
this, 

  one of the worst and painful 

  things in this breed. 
  But know the signs.....the quicker you get to the vet, the better the 
chance's 

  of survival. 

  Molly 
  Trillia German Shepherds since 1972

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Penny & Bill To: The List Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2011 10:32 
  AMSubject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: what is going on?


  Kathy,

  Whether you want to believe it or not, bloat is hereditary. I bet if you 
  went far enough back in both dogs' 

  pedigrees, you would find some common ancestry. I also believe that there 
  are factors that can make 

  it happen, but none are weather related. Jeddie bloated in the summer, The 
  Kid and her dam Ketchy 

  (both house dogs) bloated in the winter and Brando torsioned in the summer. 
  Outside of tacking the 

  stomach, I can't think of anything to prevent it. I am feeding raw now, 
  which I wasn't doing before. 

  Will it make a difference? I really don't know. Penny in NC

  
****************************************************************************************************************************



  These girls aren't really related and practices as far as feeding and 
  housing are a little different. The 

  only real thing in common is cold weather, followed by warm, followed by 
  cold. We both feed a decent
  food twice a day. Would it be possible for people that have never had a dog 
  bloat share some of the 

  things they do to help prevent it. I have read everything I can find on 
  Google. Through the years 

  it seems I have had way too many dogs suffer from this. I don't even breed 
  these dogs anymore. 

  The dog that is three weeks out from surgery is doing very well. My 7 1/2 
  year old is still at the ER 

  vet. Prognosis is good but...I've heard that before. Please share. 
  + $6,000.00 is hard to handle right now.

  Kathy 


  
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POST is Copyrighted 2010.  All material remains the property of the original 
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Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. 


  Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post.  This group and 
its administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed 
in 
any post.

  ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY 
MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS 
PERMISSION 
OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND 
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===========================================================================POST 
is Copyrighted 2010.  All material remains the property of the original 
author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind 
are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the 
Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. 


Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post.  This group and its 
administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in 
any 
post.

ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY 
MANNER 
OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF 
ALL 
PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A 
VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. 


For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx

VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org
NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/
===========================================================================


      
============================================================================
POST is Copyrighted 2010.  All material remains the property of the original 
author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind 
are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the 
Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. 

Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post.  This group and its 
administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in 
any post.

ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY 
MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS 
PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY 
FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE 
PROSECUTED. 

For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx

VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org
NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/
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